Winning VS Fun


#1

Warning…this is gonna be TLDR.

So I’m playing with my 6 year old son Minion Monopoly. Now normally, the “M” game is forbidden in this house…because I don’t classify Monopoly as a decent game…as compared to say classics like Ticket to Ride, Carcassonne, Settlers of Catan, King of Tokyo, etc. SO MANY great games I can’t list them all and those are just the entry-level starters…the gateway games, as it were, AWAY from such “games” like the dreaded Monopoly. My memories of said game are NOT fond.

BUT…our son saw our collectors version of Simpsons Monopoly on the shelf and took interest. I think maybe years ago we played that once. I also have a collectors TMNT version never-played. He wanted to play. But Monopoly only collects dust on the shelf here, for said reason above. I mean why choose Monopoly when you can play anything else of real merit? I digress. Lately I have been wanting to spend more time playing games with the family since we’ve gotten out of touch with physical board games lately…really my fault because I’m so Evolve-focused now. Maybe out of desiring something more brainless or maybe wanting to take more time with games I know my son can handle, I thought, why not? He reminded me we still do have Monopoly, but like anything adult-oriented, I figured he should start off with the Junior edition first.

So I bought this. There are Minions involved in this version, and instead of rolling dice you spin a minion on a top, so I relent. That’s pretty unique and fun. It is also a “Junior” version so it takes like 30 minutes to play and should be a good test on if he can handle playing the adult version. Bill denominations are in $1 increments. Even I can do that math! There are no taxes or mortgages or things like that. If you buy a property you instantly get a cupcake on it. If you own two of the same color you get an ice cream sundae. Easy-peazy. The game board looks like this:

So anyway now on to the point of this. I land an obnoxious number of times on Go To JAIL, either by landing on that space or getting a chance card that sends me there. My token is the ninja minion so I chalk it up as not being a very good ninja, I guess. I also often land on blah spaces like Chance or Free Parking, or properties (usually the meager starter ones) I may already own since I barely make it around the board due to going to jail so much…but finally I start to land on my son’s spaces, who owns a lot of the medium and wealthier properties. My banana dollar pool is getting pretty low and whoever has the most money at the end of the game will win. It’s easy to lose if you land on a property where you need to pay rent. Nevertheless I keep paying my son and he’s thrilled.

But then he lands on the space right after GO, after collecting his $2. I own the first property after GO so he owes me a whole 1 banana buck. Oh no. At this point he pitches a fit. He thinks he will lose if he has to keep paying me rental fees. I ask him to count his properties versus mine…he owns double what I do and worth waaay more money. I tell him about all the turns I lost going to jail, and how I often had to pay him large sums of dollars and yet I still have fun playing even when I “lose.”

My son has issues with losing which we are working on. He also has issues with winning. He is both a sore winner and a sore loser because when he is winning he rubs it in your face, and when he is losing he thinks nobody cares how unfair the world is being to him and look how much of a loser he is and nobody cares. He starts to attempt to cheat on the top spinning to get it to land on set numbers…he tries to read the chance cards in advance. He puts up a fit when he doesn’t land where he wants. IF he has to pay rent he throws the money at you.

I tell him it’s about playing to have fun, not about winning or losing…and that you need to have fun even if you lose. But he says to me…

“There’s no reason to play it unless I win. It’s a waste of time to play if I’m not gonna win. I only want to play if I will win.”

At this point I get up from the table and refuse to play with him further…it smacked me so hard what he said it took me back to thinking about some Evolve players. And now things start clicking in my brain…those players are just like son, and never learned to have fun even if they lose. And if my son can’t be changed, what hope does Evolve have with players like that? And what can I do as a parent to charge my son before nobody wants to play with him when he is in that mindset…because I sure don’t. He is the happiest child while he’s winning but if even one thing takes a turn sour he will go on and on about it and ask you to look at him and see how unfair it is, and why don’t we CARE, as if we should allow him to cheat the rolls, and allow him mulligans to re-roll, or pick a chance card that he likes.

Needless to say after I leave the table he doesn’t put up too much of a fight and instead continues to play my piece and his by himself until he gets bored and goes to do something else. But I am left feeling depressed. So I confront my husband, who says this is largely my own fault (and it may well be), because while he was a toddler I pretty much let him win all the time in games like Candyland because I wanted to boost his confidence. I even removed the picture cards in that horrible game (although that was more for us and not him because I hate that game with a heated passion and didn’t want to be sent repeatedly back to the beginning…parents will know what I mean).

Now-a-days my husband and I play games normally with him…we don’t fudge things for our son, and now he’s throwing fits when loses. He wants to play games with us but only if he is going to win, apparently. Yesterday is when he blurted all that out when I asked him why he gets so upset when we play games together. The last time we played Mario Party he even got angry like this. Sometimes he will even run away crying thinking that the world doesn’t care about him when he loses.

The game was like this…a large Mario fish sat in the center and the players were sitting in the 4 corners with turtle shell guns. You had 3 shots to fire your shells at the fish. Any time somebody hit the fish with their shell the fish would move one person clockwise. It’s strategic to save your shells as much as you can so that when the fish faces you you can hit it so that it will go on to the next person. After the timer runs out like a game of hot potato, the fish will leap up and squish the player it currently faces. Long story short he happened to be the player next to me so when the fish faced me I hit it, and then the fish turned on my son, who didn’t have any shells left, and it squished him.

“Mommy you killed me on purpose!”

“That’s the point of the game, but I didn’t have a choice who I shot at. I didn’t mean to hit you on purpose but you have to save some shells.”

“But the timer ran out! Look at my hearts now, I have less than everybody! Now I’m gonna lose! Don’t you even care?! No, you don’t…you don’t care that I die! I’m a loser!”

“Losing a game doesn’t make you a loser…you just lost this one minigame…but there’s a lot more yet. Everyone has been getting and losing hearts this whole time and everyone is having fun. You know nobody finds out who wins or loses until the very end anyway.”

“But you don’t care that you killed me on purpose! When we play you shouldn’t shoot at me!”

“You have to play the game the way it is meant to be played. You have to shoot the fish to get it to turn too, and then it faces someone else.”

“Yeah, so I die and I lose! That’s great!”

He got angry with me, riled on about how unfair it was at what I did to him, and again I just put the Wii controller down and stopped playing. As much as i tried to reason with him he just repeats the same stuff.

My husband says we need to keep playing with him and try to teach him to be a better winner and loser, but I just can’t handle his attitude anymore. He is absolutely miserable to play with when he takes a hit. He calls himself a loser and thinks nobody cares about him when he dies in the games. I try to be patient and tell him that nobody wants to play with people who only play to win, but want to play with players who want to have fun winning or losing. But again, same mantra…“There’s no point to play unless I win.”

At this point I don’t want to play any more games with him, and I told him this. I explained why, but he just can’t understand in his 6 year old brain why I would not want to play and lose to him all the time. Or deal with his poor attitude. I tell him about Evolve…and how there are players who only play to win even by cheating…and those people nobody wants to play with, and it ruins the game for everybody. But again the mantra, like talking to a brick wall.

“But Mommy you win all the time.”

“Sometimes my hunter team doesn’t win. And I almost never win as monster, but I still play monster…and I have fun.”

“But you suck as monster.”

“I still have fun playing as monster.”

“I’d just play to win.”

I find that so depressing I don’t even know how to handle it. The only time I ragequit in games is when I play with my son…and it’s not really rage-quitting…more like utter-disappointment-quitting. Is this really the future of gamers? Did I cause this problem with my son inadvertently? Is this what society is training people…winning is everything and if you don’t win it means you’re a loser? Everyone that loses is a loser which makes anyone you defeat a loser? Is that why we see so much “Evolve is Dying” threads? Half the complaints are due to quitters…people who quit because they are losing. People who admit to losing are told to “get gud” or called “scrubs.” The games all get ruined for everybody involved.

Dunno where I’m going with this. It’s just a bummer. I try to play a real game with my son, and meet the same attitude I often run into on-line. Makes you not want to play anything at all.


#2

…I still play for fun. ;-;


#3

#4

I don’t think there is much anyone can do about that.I work at an Internet Cafe so that means people from all ages (from 10 to 30) come there to play.

There are people who don’t have fun while playing and others that do.

Examples.We play a lot of lan Dota.5-man game.When we are making a group and we just want to go online,have fun(99% loose) there are some people who we won’t invite.Simply because they want to win and they tend to become aggressive and yell.But when we want to play serious games there will be people who won’t play(The ones that we are having fun who are also bad at the game) and invite others who are getting mad but at the other hand they are getting mad because they want to win.

Wait till he gets older so you can introduce him to online gaming.That’s when you can see the true “face” of a gamer.
Especially when playing together with friends.But even if that’s the case that might just mean that he wants to play to win.To become good.

Anyway i have no idea actually on the “Kids” thing.You sound like a gamer who just wants fun.He might be the opposite and be a gamer who only wants to win.


#5

He is only 6, so I don’t think that all hope is gone. :slight_smile: I’m also not sure that letting him win as a toddler really has any effect on how he is now. It may, but I doubt it.

He may just be competitive by nature, so you’ll have to work with him on how to be a good sport. On a whim I Googled the issue and got pages of bland advice. So, not much help there in my opinion.

Does he watch you or your husband play? I’m sure he didn’t get this attitude about winning from you, but maybe friends or family?

Maybe it’s best to do what you are currently doing except stop the game altogether when he begins to get frustrated and explain why the game cannot go on. If he wants to continue playing he needs to accept that he won’t always win.

I’m no expert, just kind of figuring out how to go about these things with my daughter. Luckily, she has no issues when we lose in Evolve but she does get upset when things don’t go her way in other avenues.

Best of luck!!


#6

Winning is only fun if its a challenge.
Losing is only fun if it feels like you have a chance.


#7

I know for me on Evolve, some of the most fun games I have played have ended in a loss. Not because I like losing, but because they went on for a long time, and were challenging and fun to play. In the end, they were close and came down to either the monster playing slightly better or one of us making a mistake, but they were still a lot of fun.

Personally I would take a challenging game that ends in a loss over an easy win any day. I once had a 4 stack of 40’s get matched against a low level monster, and after beating him a couple times we let him Evolve to stage 3 while sitting at relay all game just to give him a chance and let him have some fun. It’s simply not fun to get stomped repeatedly or get easy wins.

I can’t offer you any advice other than teaching through example. I would assume that if you were always cheery even while losing, then he would eventually learn to have fun whether or not he was winning as well. Will just take time maybe, no one REALLY likes to lose, it’s just human nature. I think it’s more about how you handle the loss and if you can take anything positive from it (like “Oh I may have lost, but I still had a fun time doing it”).


#8

Unfortunately everyone has a different perspective about gaming. I remember I played Evolve with a friend and we lost like 4 or 5 matches in a row but we were having such a blast and when we finally won the last match we started celebrating. Meanwhile someone who loses once can be really salty about it.

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong Sledge, you wanted your son to enjoy video games by winning and now you’re slowly teaching him humility. He’s young, this hopefully won’t effect him in the long run and he’ll enjoy gaming for the fun and not for the win. Be patient with your son and keep at it, he may be a bit sour about losing but he needs to know that winning isn’t everything.

Though this may just be my thoughts as I grew up with brothers who would call me out of a room and then set my game on the highest difficulty :unamused:


#9

I like the in it to win it attitude, my generation was the beginning of everybody getting a trophy and a pizza party after losing.

As for the quitting, that part needs to stop he has to learn life is full of losses. You have to take from that defeat, brush it off and keep moving.
Kemmons Wilson, the founder of The Holliday Inn Hotel chain once said “I had to make 500 bad decisions to make 1 good one”, He died a Multi-Millionaire

I’m not a parent yet so I don’t know if my advice is sound to you, but in any case best of luck with your son


#10

But that’s normal coming from someone so young, it’s rare to see a kid acting normal if they lose or win, it’s just human nature to be competitive, let him grow, keep reminding him that games are only for fun and he’ll soon grow awareness about it but again, it’s not your fault, this is something normal in most kids and if you stop reminding him how games are just for fun and sharing, then he’ll grow up like those other gamers in Evolve that only wants to win and doesn’t care about anybody


#11

Youngster competetivness.

You keep doing what you’re doing, in the end he’ll understand. Heck, even I used to have that attitude.

But god dammit I could use that “In it to win” attitude…


#12

Older siblings are an instant cure to this.

My brother had a lot of that when he was younger. My sister and I, who are both a good bit older than him (5.5 and 7.5 years) gave absolutely NO FUCKS about his feelings and happily made him cry and then made fun of him for caring so much. He’s a great sport these days.

Technically I had a bit of it too, beaten out of me by my sister who refused to lose at monopoly for me.

We grew out of it. Don’t back down, and he will too. I think parents worry about hurting their kids feelings too much.


#13

I love that you know of the world outside of Monopoly etc… If you ever want board game suggestions/advice please let me know. My wife and I are about to hit 100 that we own :slight_smile: Our latest inclusions is this. http://www.cheapass.com/node/48

Simply because you are blowing up ‘Mad Cows’. It seems fairly interesting but I wanted a game that had the word Mad Cow on the front :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

Great post. You’re right, this is exactly like some Evolve players, and I’ve had that same quote said to me in this same forums.

I don’t know what the solution is to your son’s problem with losing, but IMHO it does sound like an issue related to other things. It must be hard to strike that balance when raising a child, between consenting them and teaching them lessons in a “harder” way that will help them grow.

If anything, games are just games and are a better way to teach him these things than real life. Cause the lessons that are not learned at home end up being taught by real life, and that can have harsher consequences.


#15

I know what you mean. “GG”, as “good game”, has become synonymous with losing, with the game ending. Something negative. When it’s not! A good game can be had even when you lose, but you had an amazing time, a challenge, and it was close and full of situations that made each side give their best.

I’ve had a lot of GGs where my side lost, and I’m glad I played those games.


#16

Sounds like my brother.
I can’t play with him at all because when I win he throws a fit because I am better at the game than him.
I now rarely play with him.
he preordered the game Splatoon assuming I would play with him (I might play it by myself cause Ninetendo) but I warned him if he throws 1 more fit, that’s it.
Also should I like the OP post? I’m not sure if this a like situation. :confused:


#17

You can like it if you want. Also, how old is your brother?


#18

8
And a pain in the rear end. :stuck_out_tongue:


#19

Before I start commenting on anything, I just want to ask:

Is he only like that when playing games?


#20

Yeah, the community also needs to take a step back and say “look, okay, i lost. maybe i should ask the enemy team on what I did wrong so I can improve myself.”

Of course, instead they either:

  • Bawl about something being OP/UP (which really is the case with the monsters, but the monster players are the minority.)
  • Be a sore loser
  • Be a dickish winner.

Dealing with dickish winners/sore losers is what drives me away so much when playing the game- Hell, it’s caused ME to become like them.