Winning as hunters = lazarus spam+turrets


#1

it seems a bit badly thought out that the only way hunters can win, and will win really easily, is to just wait until the monster gets to stage 3 and camp the power core with mines, turrets, and harpoon traps, and spam spam spam. in it’s self this isn’t bad, it’s pretty fun. for a few games.

<this is, of course, when the monster player can actually outrun the hunters enough to level up, i see people with the goliath just running and getting taken out before they have 75% of their evolution, especially on maps like distillery, where they’re so small that the monster is chokepointed very solidly.>

it gets wearing when support just plops out 5 turrets, cloaks, pops out 5 turrets, cloaks, (the same for half an hour)

while the assault pops out 5 mines, the trapper pops out snares and the medic is constantly reviving completely dead bodies you just beat to a pulp in a spam.

yes, playing as the monsters requires using abilities as often as possible, but it’s pretty ridiculous to have that many turrets at once with such a short cooldown. you can put turrets out faster than banshee mines, for instance.

bucket is totally wrong in my opinion. his rocket launcher should be a bit like the one from unreal tournament, and his turrets should have a longer cooldown so they can’t just be put up constantly.

there’s nothing wrong with the mines or spikes, but bucket just spams his turrets the entire length of a fight, it’s like giving the team an entire extra team made of aimbots, then giving the extra team infinite revives, when the original team already has infinite revives anyway. if i break an ambush why should he be able to instantly put the same ambush back up as soon as i break it?

while i’m talking about spam, why is the lazarus device impossible to deal with most of the time? it has such a short cooldown that if you kill anyone other than the medic first you’ll lose, unless you’re a wraith (in which case everyone already left). this ability is probably the most annoying thing in the game, it’s more annoying than playing against a wraith by far, just because it invalidates anything you do as long as the medic sits behind a wall in cloak.

and i have to eat the body to stop lazarus. this is why wraith is the only valid option against him, because you can’t eat in combat, and since lazarus is instant, the only way of blocking it with the kraken or the goliath is to set off an attack three or four seconds before the medic even gets near the body, which just isn’t possible, unless you’re litterally in the most enclosed space there is in the game.

i’m sure you can tell by now that i’m mildly annoyed at bucket and lazarus. the fact that the two classes can both cloak, for instance, i find really irksome, because it means that at any given time half of the hunters can be invisible, so if you sit on a dead body and try to eat it to stop lazarus, you’ll get hit by 5 turrets then lazarus takes the body from underneath your feet because you couldn’t eat it while under fire, even if you spent 20 seconds beating it to shreds.

while i often find myself overcoming this sort of meta it’s extremely boring and often near-impossible to counter. for instance, in fusion plant, i often see teams just sitting about doing not-much until i’m forced to the power room. one guy goes on the top, one the bottom, one the middle, one the other side of the middle. here’s where shitty game mechanics come into play (i don’t know if you can swear here, but that’s what this is.) - you can’t climb up half of the walls because they don’t have ledges above them in here, and you’re totally forced into it by the game. shouldn’t the power core areas be balanced, not buggy?


detour into bugs

wraith: two of my four wraith deaths are to the bug where you warp blast, then you bug out halfway though the animation. (the other two were to mines on top of turrets on top of mines on top of turrets with hiding)

mouse sometimes gets stuck on screen for the entire game and slows down your turning


i don’t know if anyone here will agree with me. those are just some perspectives on the way the game plays. it can be really fun and quite fast paced, but piling mines on top of sentries and always revivng dead bodies constantly is just boring. and that’s the only real way the hunters have to win. just be really boring and rely on the fact that you have more abilities than your opponent combined.

so i find myself countering tactics like these with even more no-fun tactics, like calling in three abilities at once and instakilling lone opponents. is that the course the devs want the game to take? turret wall and “doesnt matter if i die” spam vs onehitkill smash and grabs?


regarding map size, i don’t really understand the size of the maps right now. it seems pretty stupid, even more stupid than not being able to climb a wall with no top-ledge. dam is the only map that is even half the size there should be. most of the time i find myself flying around the edge of the map in circles, why are the hunters not chasing me in a big long straight line for several miles? because i’d be able to hide? isn’t that the point of daisy? or is this evacuation mode?


#2

to clarify, by dead bodies i mean beaten to death ones, not ones that can be revived normally. lazarus should have like a maximum time after death, or there’s no way to counter it without a cloak to eat.

what do you do to counter lazarus as kraken for instance? i’m ranked like 20 in kraken and i’m always wondering this. i’m taking damage, i’m on a body, if i move the body gets revived.

if i move and lightning strike the dead body will be revived 100% of the time. if i stay i die because i can’t eat in combat. if i move and vortex i won’t be able to tell when to call it because of the cloak. there have been plenty of times when i’ve called vortex, hit both targets but the revive still worked.

if i sit there and try to range while calling the AOE attack, the medic just hangs back until it’s finished

if i kill three people and one of them isn’t the medic they all get revived

so the only way to win is to totally kill the medic before engaging anyone else…


#3

Not really.
I’ve won games with T1, where the monster has been competent. You just have to be good. Sounds like a dick way to say it, but every hunter combination can beat a monster.


#4

Can perhaps but not always easy.


#5

obviously i’ve had games where i’ve steamrollered the entire team with just vortex, but it just seems gamebreaking that there’s no way to get rid of players other than to kill the medic first.

when the hunters are actually good just running at them is less likely to work in my experience


#6

When I see a Lazarus on the enemy team, I do one of two things first, kill Lazarus or kill someone else and then immediately search for Lazarus. He is going to try his hardest to revive that dead guy and if you are beating him up and knocking him away from the dead guy he is not going to be happy. Even if any other hunter picks them up, they have a strike. If he is nowhere to be seen after you killed someone, then he is probably invisible. Only then do I camp a dead corpse.


#7

i guess i started to sit on corpses because you can just eat the body with wraith and i wasn’t really sure how to approach it with kraken.


#8

Yeah, continuously camping corpses is not the best idea, just need to know where Lazarus is. Spamming vortex and lightning near or on dead corpses when a Lazarus is around will also work.


#9

even then. the only way i beat somebody with lazarus is to actually swat him out of the air while he’s cloaked. otherwise he’ll just get away and revive more people


#10

Yeah thats why you’ll have to damage the hunters early (strikes on lazarus), i also once lost one a gnerator fight on the dam, because i took 0 points in flamebreath and they fortified it like crazy


#11

[quote=“avnas, post:2, topic:28546, full:true”]
lazarus should have like a maximum time after death, or there’s no way to counter it without a cloak to eat.[/quote]

He does…its 30 seconds I believe.


#12

If you’re playing as Goliath, you just need to hit Stage 2, get flame breath… and kill Lazarus first.

He can’t bring himself back to life.


#13

Really bucket? I believe bucket is the worst out of the lot. Like he is lots of fun and all but really you just can’t give up that damage amp or that orbital strike


#14

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure this is what we’ve been expecting from bosses in MMOs if they could post…lmao

Lazarus is one of the very few hunters that you actually have to change up your strategy for to deal with and he doubles as the direct counter to Kraken. This is why you struggle.

Your typical Lazarus will not wait to res so beat someone down and then surround them in banshee mines and occasionally throw an aoe on them if you don’t have eyes on the Lazarus. It’s pretty much just a waiting game, the moment you see him cloak, just spam the hell out of the corpse until you sniff him back out. And once you do, hunt him. Get him down. Blow away anyone that’s still up with vortex, and proceed to immediately eat whatever corpse he was trying to get up. Worse comes to worse down all 3 of his buddies and camp them like it’s your job until the dropship shows up.

Your Elite Lazarus will be incredibly patient and you probably won’t see him, not because he’s cloaked, but because he’s that far away sniping you and waiting for you to leave while interrupting meal time. To counter these you need to keep your eyes out for when you’re getting pegged to get the direction, and keep your eye on that direction to follow the pain signals back to the source and then pretend to target something else while sneaking lightning strike up on him from behind.

Another good counter is to grab the feeding speed perk, as you can typically burn a bar of meat before a shot cancels it, just make sure to threaten him somehow before you attempt to eat.


#15

Overwhelm him.

Focus someone, preferrably Hank or Assault, down, and work from there knowing Laz has to come in. If he doesn’t he saves his life but the other guy may expire. If he does, he puts himself at a huge risk.

Coming from a Laz main.


#16

I disagree with this, from the perspective of a lazarus main player, if the monster is smart and works on hunters so that they down two or three in one go the lazarus device can only do so much. Even when I take cooldown reduction (which I always do as Laz) it takes more time to recharge the device than it would for the monster to change focus and take me out. If the monster is going to be a bit silly and take one hunter out at a time then yes Laz will be able to recharge the device…know your enemy, adapt your play. With Laz on the team it is easy to work on the hunters to make them weak collectively before striking them all down at roughly the same time.


#17

I disagree with the entire premise of this thread. The cooldown on group cloak is loooooong. Bucket cannot spam turrets, cloak, spam turrets.

In order for turrets to be effective you have to spread them out and try and keep the fight within their field of fire. Spamming them is just a waste of time when they all get cleared by a single flame breath/supernova.

That and UAV has one of the worst downsides of any ability in the game. I love everything about bucket, from his playstyle to the character model. But I always feel guilty for bringing him over Hank’s vastly superior utility.