Why I am Salty


Was playing a game with a group that are really good at Stage 3 relay fights and there plan is for you to come to them and they have a solid defense. I was playing Wraith and she all ready have a weak Relay fight as is but with Torvald it makes it impossible. The set up was Hank/Caira/Abe/Torvald and at no point could I focus anyone.

I start the fight going after Torvald to lock him down and was doing ok but then a orbital drops and I have to pull off for one second and he is almost at full life. This cost me time and he was still able to mortar me at point blank. I almost get him down but with a stasis grenade and a miss he is back to full before I can blink.

So I switch targets hoping to go after Hank but he quickly goes invisible and before I can follow up chasing him income mortars so I have to pull off.

I then decide to go for the medic but even then I backfires as the Hank shows up and with Torvald raining hell on me I’m unable to finish the job so I pull out of the fight.

I come back trying to skywraith a little but it doesn’t work just like my normal attack. Having to deal with getting out of stasis grenades and Torvald meant I didn’t have enough traversals to back off enough or barely keep up with them at all.

I played them two times before and tried decoy but Abe’s grenades make decoy go super dumb and won’t attack unless point blank but because the decoy is slowed it never gets there.

I think even if Wraith and Torvald both have 50/50 W/L they will never be equal with the right set up. Yes I could try a different monster but I am not as good as them and one monster should never be off the table because one setup. Yes you should change your play style but one team set up should not ever shut down a monster completely. Yes they were good but that just goes to show you that if you balance a character around the skills of a pub in good hands it will destroy so hard and thus you have a balancing issue even if the data shows everything to the contrary.

Finally yes super super salty about the design choice of Torvald. It almost seems like they didn’t think it all the way through. With Hank/Caira it makes Torvald shine because you have to power through them to get the downs and you can’t do that with a good team using Torvald to his great potential.


Who would’ve thought giving an Assault a high damage dealing weapon from close and far range would break the game? Atleast they didn’t have Maggie, those harpoons mess up your Warp Blast and Abduction or Daisy blocking an ability.


I’m not going to defend Torvald but erm… have you considered he requires decent aiming and leading for his Mortars to hit?

Perhaps focusing Torvald, in an open space, while Hank can shield from a distance and Torvald has his own shield to boost, was not the way to go.


Neither is going after Hank when you have to deal with stasis, invisible, mortars, orbital, and heals in an open space.


Yes the mortars do require decent aiming and leading but what happens if you have someone fantastic at it. You should not design a character with the assumption that people are not going to be good enough to use him to his fullest.


Still sounds like a safer option than focusing the Assault when there’s plenty of shielding opportunities left.

Let me say right now: I don’t play Wraith. I try to look at it from a general Monster’s perspective instead of Wraith’s specifically, so if I’m making a wrong assumption then feel free to correct me on it.

But the way I see it is that

will happen regardless of who you’ll focus at the Relay because of the time they took to set up a solid defense.
Would it not have been a safer bet to Abduct Hank or knock him off his perch with a Warp Blast?

It seems to me that (understandably) you got frustrated in-game and just had to blast through Torvald’s defense to “prove a point” while the Medic and Support were left wide open for an attack from afar. Isn’t that what Wraith is all about?


If you could count on them not dodging or the abduct just straight not working sure. Warp blasting is an option but it takes one invisible and a stasis to ensure I will never keep track of him while all the while I am getting hammered by mortars that burn through Wraith. As I said I played them twice before and tried this but was even worse because assault had no pressure and was very good at aiming and leading but had all the time in the world.


You can’t predict unpredictability.
I don’t expect Torvald to land good shots with his Mortars when Wraith is dashing in “random” directions.
Wraith’s got the fastest traversals in the game, I don’t see why you’d “glue” yourself to your target apart from using Supernova.

I’ll leave it at that. It’s clear I don’t know Wraith’s strengths and weaknesses as well as you do.
I might come back to this topic when I encounter the same problem as another Monster.


More like assume player’s practical accuracy will be approaching 100%. What I mean by practical is “is the crosshair over the target? Have I compensated for leading if this isn’t an instant hit weapon?”

Given all of the information available, assume people are almost always aiming exactly where they need to be to score a hit. If they miss it’s either due to random chance (weapon spread) or their opponent expending a resouce (traversal, jetpack boost, etc) to avoid it. Don’t balance stuff around “people will miss”. Because there’s a sizable audience out there with damn near aimbot level precision.

It’s why sniper rifles are absurdly OP in a lot of classic arena shooters. They were balanced around the idea someone couldn’t get consistently get headshots on small targets at those speeds. But people can and that’s what the mid-to-high level play looks like. A bunch of dudes with Lightning Guns, Rail Cannons, and Sniper Rifles bunny hopping around.


Ah well I like the discussion and I do see your points. The reason you glue yourself to a person is because despite how good warp blast is it needs to be followed up with another ability and you either go Caira or at Hank and one or the other you have great healing or a shield and self healing through that.The only abilities to follow up with are Abduct which is inconsistent and does little damage, decoy which is all ready pretty dumb but gets compounded when in stasis as it acts like it no long knows what to do with its life, or supernova which is short, and leaves you in horrible position against Torvald. Otherwise you pull off and they are healed to full in seconds and you took damage for no gain.

My original strategy against Torvald was warp blast > melee tell out of jetpack or in corner > supernova + decoy. This worked but with stasis grenades like I said it makes decoy super dumb.


Yea that is what I meant by that. You are agreeing with me right because I feel I’m reading it weird? :slight_smile:


You should not be salty. Probably this tactic was not good enough.

If there is a hank you should fight him first not the other ones. But if the situation is good you can go for the medic too. Torvald is a skill based assault so many people dont deal damage with him cause they are not hit the target.

And your damage output is to low. Maybe you have set all skill points to abduction. You need to do damage go for the other skills.

The Wraith is the worst monster to force a really fight with, you must deal some strikes before.


Yes I tried not using abduction but decoy is useless because while stasis I practically can’t move so I get mortared and decoy doesn’t do anything while its in stasis but slowly wander even if someone is right next to them. Yes, yes I know Torvald needs skill to aim that is not the problem I go after Hank the Torvald just shoots at Hank before I reach him thus I get hit or waste a traversal. Also the Torvald skill was good so that is not the point.

I couldn’t fight them anywhere else because they didn’t chase me they waited at the relay for me because they didn’t need to get any damage on me early. Not to mention any fight besides stage 3 with Wraith against Torvald is asking to take damage.


So a video of you being outplayed by another team calls for nerfs?


-All I see is a Hank who had no pressure put on whatsoever in the beginning of the fight.

-You let him use his whole shield battery on Torvald and then Assault timed his shield to be used after the shield projector was out.

-You kept focusing Torvald making yourself predictable enough that Hank took advantage on getting a decent amount of damage with Orbital (which is your own fault).

-Because you were so focused on Assault this allowed Trapper to deal free damage and Medic to heal any damage you inflicted onto Torvald.

-You basically put all your eggs in one basket taking out Torvald and got punished for it.


this actually normal high level gameplay… me and several monsters here have been in this situation >.> its been like this for a while since T4 appeared,

oh and hank/ caira make everything worse


All I see is a lack of respect for Torvald
Tunnel Vision.
Not focusing Hank.
Not punishing Hank when he wasted Orbital barrage.
Not using SuperNova when Hank popped his shield.
Staying in Torvald’s face allowing him to get free damage.

Torvald isn’t OP. He just requires you to play the game differently. Every other assault has consistent damage that is hard to dodge unless you use CC on the assault. With Torvald he has burst damage that is extremely inconsistent on his end. For the monster all you really need to do when you hear the mortars is CC the hunter + traversal. You’ll now have 6+ seconds of free damage without having to worry. You’ll get another traversal, and your CC should be up by the time he starts another barrage.


if you ignore torvald while attacking anyone else, you will get bombarded and since abe is throwing his stasis, of course they are going to land, going after torvald is the safest option because be cant attack up close, but with hank and caira >.> yeah good luck


Stasis doesn’t stop your traversals which are the number 1 way to get out of the way of Torvald’s mortars.


You remember the argument we had on Twitch?

This is exactly why you try to get strikes on hunters before stage 3. Unless they where camping relay from the beginning. You brought this upon yourself.