What you think about the new trend of gamepad disimprovements?


#1

Hi guys,

I want to ask something maybe its a me problem but I encountered this now way too often in recent games.

I want to talk about gamepad feeling and the settings in current games. I have a big problem with the new default settings in games and it seems this makes trend now cause every new game has it.

Here are the questions:

Is the max sensivity in a lot of games too low? What you think?

Destiny, Overwatch or Battleborn even on the highest Sensivity level its so low, how do you feel about it?

Slow Acceleation at the beginning and then it will be faster and faster. Is this a good behavior for you?

Evolve, Overwatch, Destiny or Halo so much games have now this mechanic. At the beginning the Acceleation ist slow and then it will be faster and faster. For me this the worst mechanic ever cause the aim is not really predictable anymore. As well you cant “Twitch Aim” anymore with the sticks cause they barely move if you twitch aim.

If you dont know what I mean. I mean this. This is not possible with a gamepad anymore with the current trend of gamepad settings.

Is the Deadzone too high? What you think about it?

Sometimes the deadzone is that high that it almost feels like an Input-Lag but its just the Deadzone which is so high.

Aim assist! What you think about it?

Someone here who really still needs this aim bot? Benefits this feature the game?

Y-Axis has lower speed than X-Axis. Is this a good behavior for you?

For example Evolve, The Division and its not settable separately.


So what I want to know is. Why there are so few people who dont feel this on console and why they dont complain? This trend is bad for console gaming cause it cuts of the balls of high skilled players…


#2

Never noticed it lol


#3

I play a lot of games on PC with gamepad and there you often dont have these features. In my opinion it feels way better and you are faster with pad. Its so sad that on console they implement these help features which work more worse instead of helping.

I am fully aware that most of these features help people out who are not familiar with a gamepad but as I said in high level its counterproductive.


#4

That’s a bold faced misinterpretation. Windows XP through Windows 10 has native mouse acceleration that throws off your aim. You can disable it with a registry edit. Some games have a feature to disable it or fancy mouses have a driver that allows you to disable it, but if you’re one of those who doesn’t use it, your aim is really thrown off by the set.

The drivers for your controller(s) work by converting the analog stick signals into readable format for the computer to move the cursor for you, the accel is still there.

Try sniping with it. It becomes A LOT more prevalent then.


#5

I do snipe quite a bit.


#6

Mm. That is fair, but I thought the same way too till I took the time to disable it. It made a noticeable difference at least for me.


#7

I’ll look into it.


#8

On the OS but games can easy overwrite these setting.

Or just go to System settings.

Yes! I never played yet a game on pc with mouse acceleration. Never have seen it yet…

This is not true. This Statement is only right if you mean third party Tools Which converting stick actions into mouse actions. All new engines using xinput which have own settings and these are not influenced from some OS settings. See the xinput documentation every input Device has it own settings.


#9

A reg edit doesn’t get overwritten by the OS and games for that matter. Once it’s disabled, there’s really no need to use the feature in-game anyway.

You can’t totally disable it that way.


You saying these things tells me you’re very ignorant on how an OS is structured.

http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html - it does work. I’m using this fix linked in the blog myself.

[quote]
If you don’t know you need it, then you don’t need it!

Some older games, such as Half-Life 1, Counter-Strike 1.x, Quake, Quake 2,
Unreal and others, while they are active and running, call a Windows function intending to disable variable mouse acceleration by forcing ALL movement to be accelerated by the same amount (doubled).

On Windows 2000 and earlier, that removed all variable acceleration.

Pointing and aiming in those games was OK, because the mouse response
was then linear (all movement was accelerated by the same amount; it was
doubled).In XP, and later Windows versions, Microsoft changed how mouse pointer acceleration worked.

Now when those games call the function (asking that all movement be
accelerated), Windows enables the mouse ‘Enhance pointer precision’
feature, which adds mouse acceleration using a varying curve to control the mouse response. (It enables it even if you have it turned off in the Control Panel Mouse settings.)With
’Enhance pointer precision’ enabled, slower mouse movements make the
pointer go extra slow and faster mouse movements make the pointer go
extra fast. It is not linear and not straightline.This is
annoying, because where you are aiming at depends on how far you move
your mouse, and also on how fast you moved the mouse to aim.[/quote]


I admit I’m not familiar with controllers (never saw the need short of using one for DS). Furthermore, I’m talking native drivers, not tools part of games.


#10

Why you want that? A lot games disable it already so its fine.

Just go to mouse settings…There you can disable it. But you dont need to disable it cause a lot games disable it already for you.

On older games you need maybe a fix or hack.


Please keep in mind I mainly talk about the anoying accel. on gamepad sticks. Xinput behavior is a bit different than native mouse control. Xinput has no anoying connections to the OS settings…


#11

Because Evolve doesn’t do this natively.

You. Can’t. Do. It. Under. System. Settings. Otherwise, that blog would not exist.

I’ll point to this specific paragraph.

Some newer games don’t have it either. An example is Evolve.

Keep in mind, all mouse/control acceleration is annoying, not just in-game (I do agree with you though). Now that that’s been cleared up, where’s your proof that Xinput functions differently on a mouse cursor. Looking at MSDN (<-- Click me!) I see no proof to corroborate your claim.

My forte is programming, I saw nothing that manipulates the minimum speeds for the control inputs & disabling/modifying the accel curve Windows uses (I even searched other articles). Unless it’s specifically programmed in and it calls the function specifically, I highly doubt it disables the OS’s accel curve.


Keep in mind I’m not telling you to pick up the fix if you don’t want to. I’m just trying to fix a misconception. I learned these things, I think it’s better to share the knowledge than not put it out.


#12

It depends as programmer you have more Options than one to set the cursor Position. It really depends which function is called under the hood.

I know that this exist but as I said before sometimes its enough to just disable it in the OS settings under mouse but yes you be right sometimes even that didnt work but then the program is old or the devs using an old function call to get/Set the cursor.

And they dont respect the setting under mouse? And no raw input mode?

If they dont have a raw mode then new games often respect the settings under mouse in your OS. If this is not working either than your fix is the last rescue.

So true!

I work sometimes with xinput. We develop Software Apps. If I dont set every Value on my own the cursor does nothing. Its Completely a own thing. But if I see a text which proof my Statement I will share it.

Your fix is great for some games. No offense from my side just some guys who sharing here the knowledge. Most of your Statements are right.


#13

It doesn’t, no. Just sensitivity. I had to look under the options in-game just to make sure. Some Valve games such as Counter-Strike: Global Offensive have it, I know that much.

Yeah, but unless you use a shell (we’re getting off-topic here) it doesn’t disable itself properly. I mostly blame Microsoft for trying to idiot-proof their systems… this is why I hate Windows 10 even though it’s functionally superior to its predecessors.

The same can be said for you. My forte is working with programs too, but I do it as a hobby currently. I’ll take your word for it, and if you get a text that proves your statement I’ll read it over. Hell even some code you’ve worked on if it’s not proprietary would be enough. Let me say, you’re not incorrect in that regard, there ARE some games that have the ability to disable the acceleration programmed in and use raw input instead.

To answer what ya said earlier about older programs and the like; the function still exists but it’s borked. It’s why older games like Half-Life (the original one) aren’t able to disable the native mouse accel in Windows.


I feel we’re getting off topic though. :slight_smile:


#14

I have an xbox one elite controller because I’m mlg so…
I don’t really notice these problems.

And I can’t say I did before I got the elite. The acceleration thing makes sense to me, and I’ve never liked high sensitivity. The only thing I’ve ever had a problem with is the deadzones.


#15

When you are on PC the accel. issue is not that big. PC often dont support further crap mechanics what influneces the gamepad. This is a good thing. Not cause it wouldnt be possible its just cause that the devs dont put that much effort on the gamepad feeling on PC. The main input device is mouse…

On console the devs put a lot effort into the gamepad mechanics but the result is even more worse if they wouldnt. Crapy Accel, crappy Sensivity and so on…

Yes! But if you are on PC it easy possible often to change these values. Deepends on engine. Often you can find a config file where you can set these values even if the game doesnt provide an interface for it.


#16

Yes!

This is correct!

Yes but a nice excursion.


I just want to add one thing. What I wanted to say was the following:

Option 1: - The Game has the option to get raw mouse input. No need to disable something under the OS mouse setting. As well no need for a reg fix.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms645543(v=vs.85).aspx
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms645536(v=vs.85).aspx

Option 2: - The Game uses a smarter function to get or set mouse position (under the hood). If this is the case its enough to disable mouse accel. under mouse settings in your OS. It will effect your game as well.

Option 3: - The Game is old or just uses the default function or an outdated function to get the mouse inputs. Then you need the registry hack to manipulate very deep in the core the mouse behavior.


At least most engines abstract these kind of magic…


#17

But I’m on Xbox…


#18

I am on PS4. I am not sure if the accel and that stuff is the same across the consoles.


But yeah twitch aim is a great thing to be fast and to stomp your enemies. If the trend continues on console of the current state of settings and gamepad feeling then twitch aiming is not possible anymore and this slowes down even more the action on console. This is not great. At least for me…


#19

love the pad assist features, love them a TON

there is no comparison between mouse and pad. Even bad mouse users destroy the majority of pad users. Sad but true. If there is any twitch aiming involved the mouse users have a HUGE advantage. Aiming ground spots is effortless with a mouse and a pain in the butt for pads.

pad assists, championed by super popular games like Halo/Destiny/CoD, are essential for a pleasurable game experience for the bulk of pad players. Your thumbstick simply sucks at aiming very quickly so the aim assists make it less frustrating.

Yes there are exceptions and some true pad savants but that isn’t indicative of the vast bulk of pad players. Evolve honestly needs more help for pad players. It was designed from its very core for mice and it makes the game somewhat unlikeable for a pad player. You never want a player frustrated by the interface. You want them having fun and thinking about what strategies they want to implement. Not irritated that it is so hard to aim ground circles and at moving targets that jump all over the place.

Yeah mouse users are irked by aim assists because the PC is plagued by cheaters but you can see mouse users on the new consoles now as well. They dominate. An even playing field is best. A FUN playing field is best.


#20

Your complete Text is Mouse vs. Gamepad! This Thread is not about this.
This Thread is about the disimprovements of new gamepad-support -features -settings.

1600 hours Battlefield playtime here on PC with gamepad. Everytime one of the best players, everytime A KD over 3.0. So it could be worse. Its all about training.

But I agree you cant reach the level of very very high skilled mouse players.

So back to topic!