What we learned from e3


#1

Well alot of outcry to nerf the hunters was shared on social media. i want to know what you guys think?

Personally has there ever been a game where you control monsters in this fast of a pace? they know as much as we do about the game walking in. plus you got millions of people watching just you as the monster. in fact i thought they did REALLY well for them only playing a few times. the hunters on the other hand…really? how many shooting games has the average player played? we all learned how to adapt to new weapons on the fly from Halo and Gears. so of COURSE they have the advantage here.

I say slight tweaks but please TRS nothing major. let the monsters evolve their gameplay to the meta and don’t make it too easy. The reward for beating 4 people needs to stay just as it is. you feel like a boss. in my opinion id rather struggle as a monster player than struggle with raging hunter players who can’t seem to get along because they can’t win anymore


#2

Well I think most monster players stayed in losing fights and didn’t really know how to take the hunters down whereas the hunter’s roles are so well defined they all knew what they were supposed to be doing. That’s what made the dev match so great, it was anyone’s game right up until the end.

There are too many monsters who stay in fights they are clearly losing, too many monsters who commit too early on, too many monsters who never bothered to stealth or avoid birds, etc. I think the balance actually looks pretty good other than Laz revives being so damn fast, even if Kraken is guarding the body it seems that Laz could probably cast his revive so fast that the monster can’t do a whole lot if he misses even one vortex or doesn’t fire it soon enough. The power of the revive is such that there needs to be a slightly (like one or two seconds at most) larger window for counter play.


#3

The only thing balance wise I’m concerned about is the stages balance. How it should feel is hunters should have a decent advantage stage one, then stage two its evenly matched, stage 3 being slightly favoring the monster. Seems stage 3 is pretty even and games go into stage 3 a little 2 often in my opinion.


#4

Obviously I don’t know the deeper ins and outs of the game but I do have a concern about balance. To me the stage 3 monster looked like it struggled a little bit too much to kill individual hunters. I would have to actually play (for some time) to really give a good opinion on this of course.

There are a lot of comments about how people don’t know how to play the monster but I would have thought hunters will improve just as much when they improve their communication and learn all the little tricks of cooperative play.

There is still time for TR to fix this, and for all I know there may not even be a problem. It would be great if TR devs played the monster against some of the better teams out there at E3 to convince me I’m wrong.


#5

Well when we the devs played it was clearly obivious that the monster can control how the match played out. Whereas a lot of the tourney matches were just full throttle action all the way to the end plus all the matches were on one map with the same four hunters and monster but when the devs gave out the playtesting stats it was probably taken from 12 different maps, with 12 different hunters, 3 different monsters and all kind of other variables.


#6

I agree and I’ve posted that I think the game advances a tad too quickly before. I would like stage 2 and 3 to be harder to get to, as in take longer. It seems stage 2 doesn’t take long at all to reach.

Also stage 3 didn’t feel all that powerful…I would rather stage 3 take even longer to reach then it does now but be far more rewarding. If you haven’t done some good damage to the monster pre-stage 3 it should be a pretty massive accomplishment to take down a full health stage 3 monster, like the hunters play phenomenally well.


#7

I don’t think they should change anything, except lazarus revive- add a cooldown for 30 secs+. I think skill and strategy with the monster will come quite quickly once we get the game/ beta. I hope they dont look at the e3 games, and structure accordingly, it was only peoples FIRST time playing.
Hence why we need the beta sooner =}


#8

The hunters team with Laz and Daisy seems to be calling for a nerf.

Laz Device, you can cloak AND res (not to mention the instant res time).
With Daisy as a “5th” hunter, the monster has more on his plate to take down compared to the other set of hunters.

@Devs, please.


#9

A nerf to Lazarus may or may not be warranted, we’ll know for sure later with more playtesting and observations. However, a key point to note is it’s much easier to pick up and play Hunters than it is to play Monster, mainly because there are more games people are used to that provide similar experiences to playing Hunters (ex: shooter games) but not necessarily for Monster. It requires communication to play Hunters well but mechanically they’re not difficult to pick up and learn the ropes, while the learning curve to playing a Monster well is a bit harsher (when to sneak, when to fall back, when to engage, when to armor, what to eat, who to kill, when and where to stage).


#10

Yea, I’m thinking that’s part of it too plus the hunter’s roles are well defined. The monster has a lot of freedom of playstyle whereas the hunters all know what they are expected to do: Assault deals damage, Trapper uses harpoon and mobile arena, medic heals, etc.


#11

There’s a good quote that I keep in my mind at all times that applies to something like this:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” -Sun Tzu

Monster players in this case suffer more from the last part of the quote, as they face the most unknowns about themselves. Our jobs as devs is to make sure you’re able to know what your playing as quickly as possible, while leaving lots of room for personal growth and learning. What appears to be OP at first glace may very well not be after knowing more about your own potential and the enemy’s. At the end of the day, if it’s still OP, then that’s an easy fix!


#12

Yea that seems quite apt, a new monster player won’t really know how to analyze a situation and know how much damage he can do until he’s had a little experience seeing how hard each ability hits.


#13

I do feel maybe level 3 monsters need a buff up. Maybe it’s because WE ourselves aren’t playing the game to feel it, but level 3 kraken feels like an ‘elite mook’ rather than ‘final boss’ to me


#14

I kind of agree with that too, at least from watching I think I’d rather stage 3 take a little longer to get to but also be stronger than it currently is. Even a full health stage 3 kraken was having a very hard time and personally I was hoping it would be the other way around with the hunters having to be amazing to keep up with a full health stage 3 monster.


#15

Yeah, make the level 3 objective defence based on smarts, not firepower.


#16

Also I would like to point out that for the telemetry they showed on the other thread was all testing of just the 4 hunters and kraken. I believe Macman said this in another thread


#17

I think the way a good monster plays it is run, get to stage 2, armor up, engage the hunters to get some strikes, and stage up to level 3 with a bigger advantage and softer enemies. Because you can hear caster at the time was always saying “He’s reached stage three, but the hunters are at full strength”.

I think the idea is not for the monster to hide until he can’t evolve no more, but to take advantage of the situation to harm the hunters through stage 2 when they make mistakes, and then gain the ability to increase the pressure and regain some health after he’s used up his stage 2 armor. i think all the monsters in the tournament underestimated what they could do with some good strikes on Lazarus and just ran away until it was time to hit the generator.


#18

That sounds like a pretty good way to play, as long as you do it properly and take as little damage as possible. Loving your username by the way


#19

The only reason I believe the stage 3 monsters might need a buff, in all the tournament, only a few of the Kraken attempted to take the generator. From what it seemed though, is that they never actually get a chance to do any decent damage to it until the hunters got there and started burning down his health. I heard that shooting interrupts the generator destruction. But it shouldn’t, the monster should have the decision wether to turn around and fight, or commit his health bar to destroying that generator.

My assumption is that maybe it was meant as a consolation objective, in the sense that, if you engage the hunters and take 3 of them out, you don’t have to hunt down the third (which becomes difficult when that third hunter has stealth). But It seems the generator really gave no incentive in a risk/reward perspective when it came to the monsters strategy.


#20

I think the area around the objective on the damn map was too fortified and too easily defended by the hunters. Hunters should have the disadvantage versus a stage 3 monster with a good amount of health and full armor. It seemed like camping the objective was a viable tactic even from the start due to it being so fortified. And you get to avoid getting killed by shear or getting any strikes on you by the monster. The area around the objective could afford being a bit less campy. Hunters falling back to the objective is punishment for not killing the monster sooner. Instead its exactly where they want to engage the monster.