To be honest they are neither good or evil in my opinion I see it as the simple food chain it was Charles Darwin who said it is not the strongest or the most intelligent that survive it’s the most adaptable to change. It’s just evolution and hunters or People are not at the top of the food chain oh well what can you do? If your weak you won’t survive and you can’t rely on strength alone either.
What if she just understands that its in pain from being under-developed and having its guts hang out. It might be in actual pain because whatever creates the monsters sent it out early and it wasn’t done forming. You would hurt if you had a giant hole in you.
What people or things like is subjective. From their point of view they could be defending the planet. The humans have scarred the ground with these large unnatural machines and structures and mined the soil for deposits that are not theirs and the monsters were brought there to defend the planet.
If you put it like that it sure sounds like the humans are the bad guys.
Alright, this is going to take a lot of my time, but I’m going to go through the files and list the conversations I’m referring to.
Slim: You keep signing up to drop with me because you’re looking for sympathy.
Slim: Someone to take your side in the argument. I’m sorry lady, I can’t do that.
Kala: You fought for something you… you changed yourself into a monster to save your world!
Kala: What I’m doing, I do for all humanity! Please. You must understand.
Slim: Dr. Kapur, you don’t watch the news much, do you?
Kala: Not as a rule, why?
Slim: Because we lost, Dr. Kapur. We all lost. And everyone I knew… they’re all dead.
Kala: I see. I didn’t know that. I’m sorry.
Slim: Yeah. Me too. I’m sorry for both of us.
So I think it’s pretty obvious Hub killed everyone. They committed genocide. Why would they do that? Why does anyone commit genocide? A potent combination of hatred and fear most likely.
The monsters are intelligent things and therefore I believe torturing them is morally wrong. I don’t think we have much else to say to each other here though.
Yep, that’s what I’ve been saying since the first post I made in this thread IIRC. I said it’s possible they gave up on diplomacy.
Maybe, but even without the amazing abilities the monsters have now something big enough on a space ship is still extremely dangerous. Obviously I’m postulating here, but that’s what this entire thread is about.
Actually no. Maggie says that corporations (plural) do that and Markov agrees. Val seems to be aware of this practice also (probably through her CIG9 experience). It seems that most or all of them do this. They are definitely evil.
Hank: Markov when you say the corps took Sterling colony “away” what does that mean?
Markov: They came. Ebonstar soldiers in Sol Guard livery.
Val: Oh I get it. That’s classic.
Hank: They just straight up killed everyone?
Markov: No, we evacuated. Only a few of us stayed behind.
Maggie: Captain goes down with his ship.
Markov: Yes. This was our thinking. It was a terrific battle.
Markov: The corporation won. But we gave them a fight to remember. Some of us survived.
Maggie: They always win in the end.
Markov: Maggie speaks truth. Come! For Sterling!
That’s not what Caira says.
Abe: How’s the research coming?
Caira: That depends on what you want to know.
Abe: Where’d these things come from?
Caira: I don’t know. They’re not man-made, I can tell you that.
Abe: Ok, that’s something. What do they want?
Caira: That’s sorta outside the scope of my research but.
Caira: There is something no one’s talking about.
Abe: Well, let’s talk about it.
Caira: The monsters are happy leaving people alive. But they always, always go after the Patterson tech.
Caira: The relays, the generators. You notice that?
Abe: Yeah. Yeah I did, what does it mean?
Caira: Your guess is as good as mine.
Abe: I doubt that.
At this point it seems like you’re ignoring the lore of the game and trying to make the world that’s been presented to us seem different than it actually is. Take a hard look at what’s actually being said here.
This is the lore given by the Writer on the Basilisk war, aside the dropship conversations.
Which implies that it was a standard conquering, not some kind of massacre aside from terrible treatment of basilisk soldiers.
It makes it worse, not better that the monsters are intelligent yet so uniformly do what they do.
In which case they are either extremely diplomatically stupid to think humans are a monolith, or just ruthlessly willing to slaughter bystanders.
I don’t recall the precise nature of the Ajax, but I think it was Ebonstar and thus the crew would be armed.
They even had a lazarus man on board, according to a conversation between Laz and Torvald.
And yet in another conversation Hank and Markov are in an argument with Val over how colony life with a corporate share is better than Hub life.
I’d think Val’s comment was more about her work as a spy giving her knowledge of false flag operations, which CIG9 has probably used in the past.
Heck, even Kala’s lore mentions a couple taking a colony contract to leave a better future for their kids, and Maggie offers Slim a partnership in both of them founding a colony with a contract at some point.
For that matter, that seems like a case of a corp attacking another corp colony rather than every corporation conspiring.
Doesn’t shine well on Ebonstar though.
If the Monsters were truly happy leaving people alive, there would have been more survivors of Factor as I said, and far less casualties in the battle for Shear.
It sounds more like the destruction of Patterson Tech is their real priority, but they have no qualms against viewing humanity as prey if they are on the same planet.
You have a rather narrow view of the lore, and with the broader evidence I’ve shown and what is easily apparent from so many human deaths, it is clear that the monsters are simply monsters.
You aren’t quoting anything I’m saying, and it’s making it difficult to understand what you’re actually replying to. Hopefully I’m following you though.
So do you have a link to something specific to back this up? I took the time to find the conversation that proves my point. Would you mind to go find the proof that it wasn’t genocide, since I’ve given you solid evidence from the game that it was?
It makes what worse? I was talking about the morality of torture, not the morality of the monsters’ actions.
Right now they’re only attacking specific targets and anyone that tries to stop them from destroying them. Please read the Caira dialog from my previous post.
Sigh I’m only saying that monster was different, and since this is a thead about speculation I’m suggesting maybe the first creatures were not specifically design to destroy. I completely get that this may not be the case.
They never say anything positive about the corprations in that conversation. They just talk about the positive aspects of being a colonist. I can get the exact conversation for you when I get home.
Yeah, I’m not saying colonization or anything to do with it is morally wrong. I’m saying that the corporations do not respect the claims of colonists and are willing to steal their claims from them on a whim. The corporations are absolutely evil.
We know the colonists on Factor definitely tried to stop the monsters, but we don’t know a lot of specifics about what happened there. Everyone definitely died other than Maggie, but it’s very likely that many people died from starvation or dehydration, since the monsters destroyed the power relays. The monsters definitely don’t shy away from killing civilians, but they may not understand who is a civilian. If the relays are harming them or their dimension then they may see anyone defending them as aggressors.
I’ve cited several conversations directly from the in-game lore. You’ve made several statements I’ve proven to be absolutely false. Why don’t you cite some things from the lore to prove your viewpoints? If my view is so narrow, why can’t you provide any evidence of your claims?
Even if they were defending the universe… they’re still killing humans. And that’s the only thing the Hunters are trying to protect; the humans. So if we are the bad guys and they’re the good guys… in our eyes, their the bad ones, we’re the good ones. It’s just because we’re defending our nature and each other. So even if we’re doing something bad, most of the population of humanity ain’t gonna see that.
You can still think they are the good guys. Go right for it. I’m not stopping you, and I have nothing against your opinion.
I’m just saying… they wouldn’t be consuming tons of wildlife on the planet if they were protecting it. Equal wildlife = equal ecosystem. You need a balanced amount of animals to keep an environment healthy. And it’s practically confirmed that monsters were warped to Shear due to something with the Patterson equation.
And I said consuming tons of wildlife. Not all of it. And you practically have no evidence that their protecting the universe. If they were here to protect it, why didn’t they show up years ago, when we first starting colonizing the planet? That would take a whole lot less wildlife consumption, and less time to have us evacuate and colonize the planet with Patterson technology.
And Patterson technology has nothing evil involved with it. It’s never been mentioned, but if it was to bring Armageddon down, then why would humans have built it in the first place? There’s nothing confirmed at all that the monsters are there to protect the planet.
And who is the “it” you continue to mention? “It” never says they were eating everything. Does it have to? No one ever says Bucket’s yellow, but he is, right? Or does that mean it has to be stated directly? No, Bucket’s blue.
Who ever said the wildlife on shear are endangered?
Because humans don’t know about? They even mention that they don’t know how or why it works. So having too many of them could have a terrible reaction they don’t know about. The monsters didn’t co.e earlier because it could have just been a few that wouldn’t have caused a problem. As we get more tech the chances of something happening might have increased and the monsters came in to put the boot down.
It being the people who created the game and the story. We don’t see them eat everything. The maps are very small in comparison to what the world is so there is plenty of wildlife out there.
And none of this needs go formation as its all speculation. Your bringing up things as fact that you don’t know so you could very well be wrong.
I know. It’s all just speculation. I’m just having a nice debate with you.
And I never said they were endangered. The monsters can get them endangered. Who knows, maybe the animals native to Shear have breeding issues like Cheetahs?
You’re getting very hostile in my opinion. I’m leaving the conversation here because you’re one of those people that have an idea and is very stubborn with it. I’m saying it’s practically confirmed the Monsters are here to attack the planet, not save it. Have a good day.
The story could simply be, “hey these humans are building a lot of those Patterson things. If they get too many it’s going to rip a hole in space or some other disastrous result (it doesn’t matter what) we need to go get rid of some of those before they destroy everything.”
I’m not being the least bit hostile. I am being direct to the point though. When you talk to someone you speak directly. That’s how I have been taught my whole life. So do not take it for hostility when there is none.
You can ask anyone on this forum. It’s how I talk. The reason I was still debating with you is because it looked like you weren’t getting it. Your last debate post almost argued against yourself.