What I predicted is seemingly becoming a reality


#1

Back with the 2nd patch that had the first monster nerfs and how they were made, I predicted that this game would become Hunter favored.

The evidence that gave me the initiative to predict such an outcome was the fact that the devs are using telemetry data to balance the game. The devs are smart people but it’s common sense not to use such data since most of it comes from public matches and a lot of those contain ransoms that don’t cooperate very well and that’s the flaw in using such data.

The devs should NOT use telemetry data to balance the game because then they are wiping out the need to do better or the possibility to do better for one side or the other and in this case it’s the monster side.

Devs, I love the concept and the way you made this game, but you’re beginning to screw up immensely due to using such data. Using such data is a flaw of a concept to balance a competitive type game. I haven’t been able to play for a while but as I see more and more threads stating how monsters are becoming slaughter for the hunters and the patches that support that is making me want to play the game less and less once I get my PC back later today.

With the patches that I’ve seen and how I’ve read from actual descriptive threads how they affect the monsters, I can barely even call them monsters anymore. Before and after your first couple patches I’ve dealt with the feeling that stage 2 is beginning to be no longer a fair fight and as I’ve seen time pass by, more and more monster players have been saying that and now even hunter players are beginning to step up and admit how it doesn’t really feel like a win anymore.

I would’ve been more descriptive and supported my statements with more evidence but it’s difficult to do so on mobile and I’m getting ready for work. But TRS, @MacMan @SlabOMeat, don’t let you’re monsters of destruction become nothing but punching bags for the hunters the way they’ve been anymore. This type of game is supposed to be the kind of game where you get better based on practice, not by updates. It’s basically becoming a game where everyone gets a trophy; or a game based on bad welfare where the skilled people are being deprived from having a chance to give crappy people an unfair advantage that makes the most skilled monsters have to dish out almost completely flawless play to beat them. Please try a different route. I believe in you guys and I’m speaking up because I do. I know you guys will make things right in the end and that’s what’s keeping me on Evolve. :fist:


#2

I am extremely… interested in this development. After seeing the way some balance is done, I almost think it’s a lot more ‘fair’ then ‘balance’.

For example, when asked about the ESL Macman said to remember that in the past Kraken was destroying in the ESL, and now he is loosing more. So I wonder if they balance things less on an over all scale and more on a ‘basis’, like “Well monsters are too strong this week, give hunters a week where they dominate then bring them down”. Probably not the case, but the vibe I got.

And again, what if in a month the monsters are stupidly broken and someone makes a version of this for hunters. Don’t forget that not a week ago we were all pissing ourselves about how ludicrously powerful Kraken is, and now the only problem he has is that he is too difficult to land damage on. And with Markov+Cabot, that ceases to be a problem. And before that, when Kraken was nicely balanced, we were all annoyed beyond measure at the Wraith.

I do think that the balance is a bit tricky though, as much as I love the Devs they seem to really want to keep Kraken’s high mobility and just make hunters work around that, and I think that has really backfired. The Wraith is extremely weird; Warp Blast is still a bit strong but Abduction does almost no damage, Decoy has incredibly stupid ai and only attacks 1/5 of the time, but if it does hit the damage it does is absurd. Supernova is completely useless.

So we have one monster that is considered OP, one that has both OP and UP elements, a relatively balanced monster in Goliath, and an UP monster in Behemoth.


#3

Devs have repeatedly said they don’t only use Telemetry WLRs to work out what to balance, they’ve also said that while they make changes that they hope will retain balance, they also make changes that may negatively affect balance but, by doing so in small incremental ways, give them the signs they need on what to buff/nerf next to re-balance.

For example, this latest patch has hit monsters hard. Nowhere has TRS claimed they want anything other than a balanced game so this assertion certain people have about them desiring a “hunter favoured” game is nothing more than an oft-repeated opinion. They’ve since said that they’re looking at numbers like the latest ESL with interest, and that by making this one small change they can better see the causes of imbalance as an ongoing effect. They should now be able to see the issues monsters are facing and give them a buff (or hunters some kind of nerf) to rebalance out this issue. I wouldn’t be surprised to see traversal regen coming down, or maybe abilities cooldown being reduced a little to allow monsters to keep up the assault without having to rely on nailing their combo.

Nice thread on balance though, it never hurts for us to remind the devs that we’re looking for a fun and balanced game and that won’t happen if the hunters have the run of the place… but everything that the devs have said runs counter to your feelings on what they are doing and why they are doing it… have faith! :wink:


#4

I’ll always have faith my man :fist:


#5

Remove the traversal perk if they must, but leave the regen alone.
Man, I seriously hope your prophecy here doesn’t come true.


#6

It’s been said a long time ago now, so who knows if it’s still on the cards, that they have been flirting with ways to make it so that combats happen more often but that the monster has more opportunity to get away from the domes. Stamina regen would go a long way towards that. S’all I’m saying.


#7

Same here man. Same here


#9

Nice observations, makes sense how hunters are really out of their place right now. From ESL data it seems that hunters are stronger this time around.


#11

Haha that’s hilarious :joy::joy::joy:


#12

The issue we currently have on Monsterside is pretty much the sum of the Devs appropriately addressing balancing issues (for the most part anyways, it’s hard in an asymmetrical game I know) and Hunterteams actually taking the time to figure out different strategies and forming a metagame at the same time.
It wouldn’t have hit the Monsters this hard without all the tweaks since release. But we can’t expect the devs to sit tight and see if anything actually develops over time on Hunterside to balance out the Monsters fighting advantage. This hurt the competitive scene the most in my opinion, as Teams have found the current most effective way to force the Monster into a massive disadvantage without proper counterplay with the evolve-dome strategy. Which is made possible or even easier for the Hunters due to the buff to the Movement Speed Perk, Hunters figuring out the most effective ways to traverse the maps and the Monster traversal regen nerf.

Sucks to be Monster in the current meta. Sucks to be labrats for balance and mechanic changes with every micropatch. But the devs couldn’t have forseen how the balance changes would be affecting high end games while a meta was just being developed by the competitive scene.


#13

lol another one. I guess it is real. I’m gonna take a break from this thread before they decide to ban me all together now.
XD


#14

Do you guys remember release? or better: the Alpha? (apart from wraith) that sense of “omgomg what do i do” panic as soon as you got control of the monster? what I’m getting at, is that before the established meta, it was anybody’s game. the meta now is so sensitive, that each patch changes it. More and more monster nerfs are compounding the need to have a perfect set of actions as the monster; especially in high level play. Take wraith now for example…many wraiths I fight, not all, are scared of engaging before S3 because of the punishment they get for not being able to build up the strength to get even 1 strike because of compounding nerfs. other monsters have their own meta problems, but it feels worse with every patch.
I play monster and hunter alike, they are both fun, but the monster seems to have less room for error now that these patches keep pushing the hunters ahead.


#15

All they need is a pbe server open to certain people like moderators and top players of the game. This would let people talk about the changes before its a mistake like the tumble change


#16

You sir have baffled me with the awesomeness of your idea. I shall be sending you a cookie lol


#17

I must agree. Patch test servers is something devs should consider I’m just not sure how costly it is and if TRS can still afford it.


#18

I have to agree with the power creep of hunters.

I personally believe balance in a game such as this, is for the monsters to have the advantage. Ideally, I would want monsters to win more matches. The entire point of a big game hunt is that it is hard and you should need more coordination and team skill, to earn victory as a hunter. Monster kills become far more memorable and satisfying. I want monsters I fight against to be scary and I want them to feel bold enough to actually start to hunt the hunters. There was a point where this was the case, you would get fully armoured and actually try and stalk the hunters. I want that back.

I’m not sure exactly where things have change, perhaps it is just cumulative fiddling, but there is a definite fragility to being a monster that was absent in earlier versions of the game.

EDIT: To add to this, I also think focusing on “the competitive” side is completely the wrong approach. If there is one thing that is universal about competitive scenes in games, is they utterly gut the imagination of game worlds and atmosphere, reducing them to number crunching, min maxing vessels for player skill and personalities. Turtle Rock should focus more on making a fun, atmospheric sci-fi monster game and less on “sponsored by Razer”, just my take.


#19

Well they haven’t done this like… at all. Anyways, if the best don’t stand a chance against the best, the decent don’t stand a chance against the decent and the bad can’t win against the bad I’d be less worried about immersion and more about overall balance. A proper immersion in Evolve would be setting the focus of the game more on the early game Hunt aspect in actually finding the Monster rather than the mindless and boring nonstop chase like it is in the current state of the game. I for one would totally love this change of gameplay focus.


#20

Hunting balance in games and the stubborn focus on it, never works. If your game isn’t very simple in its parameters and game-play variables, you have no chance of ever achieving balance. The ability of players and the plethora of potential elements just makes it an impossibility. You end up in a state of constant flux like the PvP in every MMO, the heroes and items in MOBAS or just like we find in Evolve. It is fruitless.

You do your best to create abilities and tweak them as you can, but focusing your effort on it is just doomed to fail and it would be better invested in just expanding the gameplay by adding more toys to play with. Competitive gaming is formed by communities from the basis of a good game, it organises itself. I’m not saying ignore it, but it emerges of its own accord and the best examples of it come from games that have developers that just focus on adding content.

Look at DotA 2’s recent patches. This last year they have been making some radical changes with almost wanton disregard for how it affects the professional scene. That scene griped and moaned a bit, but it is reliant on the game entirely and as such, has adapted and made the viewing of matches with the added meta for the upcoming TI all the more interesting.

EDIT: I’m not really arguing or disagreeing with you, I just feel balance is achieved through variation and diversity, rather than endless too and froing.


#21

@MacMan This is how the game should be. This is what will bring Evolve players back. Monsters are monsters for a reason. Give them their reason to be called as such back :fist:


#22

I didn’t think evolve would be a test this patch out on everybody then we might tweak it later kind of game. Still gonna be a diehard fan regardless lol. And if they do make pbe servers I want the certification to participate in it :blush: