Westworld Discussion (Spoilers!)


#1

Ok, so let’s talk about this new HBO masterpiece. I want to talk about so many things, but since I just can’t organize my thoughts, I’ll just start talking about the latest episode, Trompe L’Oeil.

Omg, that ending, Dr. Ford is truly a terrifying human (or Host?), to think that he would do such an awful thing to Theresa. The fact that Bernard being in a relationship with her was all part of Ford’s plan, it makes you realize what a sociopath he is and that brings so many questions. Who is a Host and who isn’t? Is he going to replace Theresa with another host similar to her? Are other Hosts just robot clones of people who died? So many I tell ya!

There is this theory out there saying that Bernard is actually a copy of Arnold and that the true Arnold (Bernard) was the one who kept having secret meetings with Dolores in the past and that’s how he got interested in the concept of Hosts having consciousness.

So here’s my theory, I actually think that Ford is the original Host created by Arnold. Why do I think he’s a Host? Well, because of how much power and intelligence he has. Through the series I have noticed that he knows so much about everything that is happening in the park and inside the building and yet, we haven’t seen how he has done it. He just walks around and mysteriously knows everything, I think he has deeply infiltrated the system. Plus, the Man in Black was actually wondering what would happen if he cuts Ford open and then he was talking about finding something “true” (I think he was implying that Ford is fake). But yes, I think Ford’s plan is to prepare his Hosts for the outside world, to replace humans. Maybe that’s why Arnold wanted to destroy Westworld so badly, because he knew of Ford’s plan. But again, that’s my theory and I know there’s some stuff that doesn’t make sense.

I also wanted to talk about something that I noticed on Theresa’s last moments and it was how she put her hands on her hips like Bernard told her to, to show Ford that she is confident and has control and for me, that was just heartbreaking. She tries to maintain control over the situation, but her life was already on Ford’s hands and just seeing her realize that she was going to be killed by her lover was just really tragic, amazing acting indeed.

So, let’s talk about it!!


#2

I am very busy, but plan on jumping on this post late tonight to discuss!! This shows FUCKING amazing!!!


#3

Such a great scene!!!


#4

I know I’m personally loving the show so far and definitely want to weigh in on this conversation. Give me an hour or two to finish my classes and some work, then I can jump in.

Just quickly though, I don’t know who to trust in the show anymore. The company (can’t remember the name right now) has been stealing information from the park via the satellite for seemingly nefarious reasons. Ford just wants his fantasies and dreams to survive and thrive. Also, apparently this “sacrifice” happens every now and then, so I’m wondering if Ford has a Theresa host so cover up her death and if there is anyone else that might be a host designed as someone else Ford has killed.


#5

@Buckets_Sentry_Gun
I too have had thoughts on Ford being a host, specifically because of that MIB line.

I’ve also had thoughts where everyone is accept him, and it’s literally his video game.

As for him being a Host, the only reason I’ve dismissed my personal thought on that, is because he’s the only character (confirmed that is) that we’ve actually seen as a younger version of themselves.
MIB may be William, but that’s not confirmed.

I want to bring up this sense of time though, it’s no secret that there’s a theory of it being a double timeline show, and I had been putting that off, UNTIL this was pointed out to me.

So we now know Bernard is a host, and it could stand to reason that he is modelled after Arnold.
Why?
Well when ford shows him that photo of him and Arnold, there’s only two people, yet there’s room
for a third person, and we know that the first and second person are Younger ford, and the host modelled after his dad, which isn’t Arnold, so Bernard can’t see Arnold, cause he’s see himself.

If you consider this, then you could consider that the sit down conversations between Bernard and Delores, are actually Arnold and Delores before the accident!

Thoughts?!?!?

Also, that moment with Teresya and Arnold was heartbreaking.
I could only imagine that someone who you confused in, and were with intimately, turns out to not be who they are, and not even real.
I feel like my life would crash, which would be horrible right before my death.

Also I’m now super fucking happy there’s a thread on the forums, and a home for Westworld here!!! Thanks @Buckets_Sentry_Gun and everyone who is and will take part, this will be an awesome thread !!


#6

I will be discussing more tomorrow (gtg to bed) and yes, I’m so glad that I can discuss this awesome show with you guys. :smiley:

Edit: Also, just wanted to leave this here:

My favorite scene from this show so far. :heart:


#7

Good point![quote=“Jayrob2k72, post:5, topic:107036”]
MIB may be William, but that’s not confirmed.
[/quote]

I still have my doubts about that one since Dolores had flashbacks of her meetings with MIB while she was with Williams. Also, about the MIB, many people think he dragged her just to play with her, but I honestly think he did that to train her to defend herself and that’s why she managed to kill the man on that barn, because MIB taught her to do it when the time comes, but that’s just my theory or maybe it’s pretty obvious, I don’t know. xD

Oh yes, it has to be this! The evidence is too strong. Plus he did told Dolores to look for the Maze, on that same basement and that’s exactly what she’s doing with William. Although some fans are saying that this maze is just a way for Hosts to get true consciousness and if they do that, they will probably end up destroying or escaping the park. :open_mouth:

She didn’t even put a fight, super sad indeed. :frowning:


#8

If I don’t respond in depth for a bit, it’s cause I’m st work! As soon as I’m home I’ll post some thoughts!!


#9

Sol I do have my doubts that this is two timelines, but it has strong arguments too.

I do wanna ask your personal thoughts, and anyone who wants to chime in about the end game here.

You mention some think the robots want to achieve consciousness and kill humanity, I could see that!

Yet, I feel like the show challenges us to look deeper.
MIB’s goal has been to find the maze and I guess “solve it” cause he wants to know what it all means.

So it stands to reason that it’s not just for hosts, but enlightenment for potentially humans as well.
Even in the end, when we find out, it will enlighten us as to what’s going on.

This is sort of why I don’t want to TO in the end be about A.I destroying the world.

There’s alot of inspiration and influence from video games here, and I wonder if that’s all this is to Ford, but the ultimate game, that of life.

So I believe the purpose behind Ford and the Park is to get the hosts to an almost human like state, and I think Arnold’s portion of the story, is to interstate them, so that they can join civilization, not destroy it.

I may tweak that later on, as Arnold is for sure aggressive (in whatever form her takes, even if it’s a virus) so much so that I think he at least wants the park destroyed and used as a safe haven for hosts.
I believe though that’s for all the terrible things done to them, and that they’ve been asked to do.

I’m also curious on your thoughts about these two things.

  1. Why is Fords new narrative a parallel with what’s going on with the hosts (Wyatt hearing “the voice of god”)
  2. If ford is all knowing about the on flings, why didn’t he see the issues with the family hosts coming (kid killing dog)

Sorry for any spelling errors! It’s late, I’m tired, and gotta be up early!!


#10

What episode is this? I can’t find it! :open_mouth:


#11

I’ll have to re-watch, but I think I remember her having super quick and short flashbacks, maybe my mind is messing with me. :sweat_smile:


#12

She does have flashbacks of MIB, but not while she’s with William. Well, at least not what I could find. :open_mouth:


You guys probably already noticed that we’ve seen the basement before.

A thing I noticed about it though, is that when Theresa arrives, there’s a bookshelf/wooden tool cabinet thing. But by looking at the scenes with Bernard and Dolores, there’s actually a door behind it. I wonder if that might be important later.


Also, the robot building machine is not there during the conversations between Bernard and Dolores.


#13

Not kill humanity though, just destroy the park and be free. Although it would be awesome to see them invading the outside world, but I guess that’s too predictable. [quote=“Jayrob2k72, post:9, topic:107036”]
So I believe the purpose behind Ford and the Park is to get the hosts to an almost human like state
[/quote]

I also believe this and I think Benard is his first guinie pig. Although, why? He didn’t believe in giving the hosts consciousness and yet, it looks like that’s what he’s trying to do. I guess he just wants to keep them there, make them more human and let them free in his world, but like he said, under his control. So I guess he just wants to play god in there and he doesn’t want his creations meddling with humans. Maybe Arnold didn’t believe in that, like you said, maybe he wants/wanted to free them from Ford.

That’s very interesting, because for Arnold, that was a step into making hosts have consciousness. But like Ford said, that had two cons:

  1. Host getting consciousness can be really dangerous.

  2. Some would still think that the inner voice is just the voice of God and thus, they would become fanatics.

Maybe Ford is experimenting with those concepts?

As you can see, Arnold somehow has even more control over certain Hosts (the originals) than Ford, to the point where the kid and even Dolores purposely lied to Ford. So even though Ford looks like a person that knows it all and has everything under control, in reality he’s confused and worried about some host acting fishy and mentioning Arnold.

Good catch! Who knows, more secrets? I need to know!! :open_mouth:

Theory:

Ford made it after he killed Arnold, to make a clone of him. :open_mouth:


#14

See? This is where Arnold was trying to make Dolores have consciousness, when he told her to improvise and then she said something that was not programmed and he smiled. Then he told her to keep everything as a secret and what has she done so far? Exactly that! :smiley:

Also, when he says This place you live in, it’s a terrible place. It looks like Arnold felt sympathy for the hosts and he wanted to free them of Ford, Ford makes them go in loops and suffer and Arnold just didn’t believe in that.

Edit: Of course, this is still a theory.


#15

I apologize, my quoting skills are subpar, so I’m not great at posting direct responses, but im digging all of this.

So then Arnold having more control.

What do you believe to be the representation of Arnold?
Do you believe he still has a physical presence? Is he what’s at the centre of the maze?
Right now I blieve they are speaking of him as coding, does that make him a virus?
It would parallel the movie well!

Also something I FEEL not talked about in general through media is the
"The violent delights, will have violent ends" command.

Is that a part of the Arnold coding / virus? Or an offshoot?
Cause we’d have to treat Delores dad (forgot the name) as patient zero if it’s coding/virus, and that Musve was an intended scenario.
If it isn’t though, (more info may come to light) why did it start with him and that photo?

As I post I even start talking with myself, because although he uttered the words, the reality is those convos with Delores have been a big part of her"awakening" so why was it so simple for Mugabe with the command?

I’ll stop there, feel like I could keep going, but I’m loving the responses, and again I’m sorry I’m
Not good at quoting, or spell checking as I’m going along.


#16

I think his consciousness is on the System and like some people have said, I think that’s Delos’ true objective, transferring human consciousness to the host and thus, achieving immortality.

Is it a command? Maybe it is, maybe it triggers the search of consciousness for the Hosts or maybe it gives the Hosts a wake up call, something that makes them remember what happened to them.

Maybe that was part of Arnold’s plan? I don’t think that photo it’s really important, what affected him was the fact that he actually recognized something that he wasn’t supposed to, it could’ve been any other object from the outside world and he would’ve reacted the same way, I think. So maybe it’s a virus (Arnold) that affected him. Why did it started with him? I don’t know :open_mouth: [quote=“Jayrob2k72, post:15, topic:107036”]
with Delores have been a big part of her"awakening" so why was it so simple for Mugabe with the command?
[/quote]

I think there’s a third party that we just don’t know, because Maeve doesn’t have any voice calling her, like Dolores does.

No worries, it’s totally fine! :smile:


#17

New episode soooon!! :smiley: :robot:


#18

My thoughts while I was watching:

-Time to write my own fucking story

Loved that quote, Meave is so badass!! She’s actually creating her own story!! OMG

-You’re wasting time that I don’t have
Can this mean that MIB is dying and maybe he’s looking for immortality? Like Arnold did? (probably). (edit: Scratch that, it looks like he kinda explained his motives)

-I love the tension between Hale and Ford, you can tell that she isn’t stupid and she probably knows that Ford had to do something with Theresa’s dead.

-Omg! Elsie nooooo!!!

-Dolores is remembering, she knows the truth and her killing everyone, that was probably the incident.

-The MIB’s story was amazing! Finally showing that hosts can actually feel, it looks like the Maze is like an idea.

-Maeve is so powerful, to think that not even Ford could control her. 0_0

-Ford’s new story is insane, what the hell is he planning?

I’ll try to discuss and analyze more tomorrow, I love Westworld!! :heart:

Edit: I edited some stuff, I was typing too fast xD


#19

It was a very interesting episode, indeed. [quote=“Buckets_Sentry_Gun, post:18, topic:107036”]
it looks like the Maze is like an idea.
[/quote]

I have to agree with this. It seems like “The Maze” is some sort of code that Arnold programmed when he was experimenting with consciousness. This is likely the answer to why only some hosts, such as Maeve and Dolores, seem to have more will and power; they were the experiments. The Maze is some deep, core code that inexplicably allows hosts to be truly life-like (this is what the MIB saw after he killed Maeve’s daughter).

I also really liked the Ford-Bernard scenes. The conversation about what can make human feelings and host feelings differ was great. It really does make you think about how you can break down basic emotions into their core attributes and design them into something non-human. What makes the emotions humans feel differ from the emotions that a life-like, programmed being feels? Where is the boundary that defines sentience?

Edit: I also wanted to point out that, when Maeve is having her break down, she says “the pain is all I have left of her” when referring to her daughter. I’m pretty sure I remember Bernard saying the exact same thing when talking about his son (when on the video call to his wife, if I remember correctly). I don’t know if Ford implemented this line to make Bernard seem more realistic when talking about his feelings for his son, but this outburst seemed like it came from Arnold’s original “Maze” code, if that truly is what the Maze is.


#20

At first I thought Teddy and MiB had reached near the center of the Maze because that guy they fought was kinda dressed like a Minotaur. But then I saw a concept of him in the writer’s office, so I’m not super sure. Maybe I’m the only one interpreting that that way.

I was really not into MiB’s monologue… I actually don’t like when he goes on and on. I got all excited when he said he’d tell Teddy who he was… maybe he’s William?

I am super excited for the potential of what Maeve is doing. That is one bad ass host woman who is doing some amazing stuff.

I was kinda wondering if more and more hosts were becoming “more aware” similar to Maeve and Dolores. Like Teddy, for example, suddenly starts remembering things MiB did. I wonder if he’ll also start being able to resist orders as he becomes more aware of what he is or what’s going on?