Warner bros. Interactive Entertainment and Turtle Rock Studios Announce “Back 4 Blood”

#266

Say it again, but as Torvald:

“but the dialogue and interactions in Evolve were fucking great.”

Now say it as Maggie:

“but the dialogue and interactions in Evolve were fucking great.”

And now Bucket:

“but the dialogue and interactions in Evolve were fucking great.”

That’s what I want from B4B.

Taking the variants out of the equation, there were 20 unique******* characters in Evolve. I can’t name 1 that overlapped with another. 20 is a number I feel can work. However if lore is going to be intertwined with it, I’d be willing to cut that number back to reduce the strain of the VO work and lore entanglement.

But I would die if Evolve had a baby with L4D and it was called B4B. Take the best elements of both games, and merge it together, and I’ll have nothing to complain about. And I would also be willing to give up glitter for that, which is a huge deal.

2 Likes
#267

#realQuestion

What could you do in sci-fi with the zombie genre from the L4d vien?

#268

No one mentioned it yet and I might be the only one to point out, but it would be very important to work on some kind of anti-cheat. With what I remember from Evolve, with those cheaters who could trigger the “press-to-win” button right at the start of the game, it had an impact on the playerbase and it made a lot of new players flee and other experienced players mad because of how unfun it was to wait for a game to start only to see that you get insta-killed from nothing before the dropship could arrive.
That was something I remember, and a lot, lot, looot of players complained about it.

So I would recommend that you work on the anti-cheat, I’ve seen a couple of games that had waves of cheaters like The Division at its release on PC, or Asphalt 9 (I’m done with you, Greedloft), or The Crew and The Crew 2.

#269

Change zombies to inter hell demons. Think that crappy Hellgate game.

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#270

Although it’s a co-op game, will there be any pvp modes or a type of leaderboard/ranks? Apologies if this has been asked already.

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#271

Yes, there will be PVP. :slight_smile:

You can read the FAQ here:

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#272

I think TRS learned a lot about anti cheat with evolve, but I don’t think we’d hear too much about efforts because that’s usually counter productive to fighting the cheats.

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#273

How about just passive bonuses, like the characters from Alien Swarm? Class-specific things aside, all of them can equip everything and do everything, but each has a set of "+X% to something"s that nudge them in a certain style.

Expanding on this concept with more unique passives could really up the variety (and roster of personalities) without causing any balance headache.

(It could also lead to funny problems like refusing to loadout properly because of the bonuses. For those who know, I refuse to take anything but Vindicator+Launcher on Jaeger, no matter how awkward it makes things.)

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#274

I think Evolve and Hunt Showdown had it right (although balancing is always important to keep an eye on). I’m perfectly fine with introducing “classes” of character, but I’d be happier with every character essentially being the same but being able to load in perks that enhance their game in different ways. I think this would help keep the co-op game a bit more fresh for longer.

Want to all run a team with bleed resistance for a more “up close” aggressive game against zombies? Awesome. Want to run a couple of players with med kit perks while another couple have melee perks to balance it out some more? Alright! Always getting ganked by special monster types and want to run “awareness” perks? More the power to you.

On top of this it gives the developers a way of keeping the zombies fresh with some auto-balancing. You’re a team of high level 50 people? On top of the zombies being a little tougher than usual, the special monsters get some of the perks that you’d be able to select if you were playing PvP too… sometimes it’ll be faster specials, some times tougher, sometimes heavier damaging.

I think the whole perk system with Evolve was super green and relatively untested…I’d like to see it polished up and used in B4B.

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#275

I also wouldn’t mind seeing hints of Natural Selection in that the infected can evolve’morph as the match goes on. Basically to help prevent too much slow turtling and to change tactics based on opponent skills/loadouts.

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#276

To chain from this, might as well give my hopes and dreams…

I loved L4D, I stopped playing it at the time for one reason alone… I did not have the time to run the entire campaign through from start to finish by that point, and not being able to play with the same people regularly enough meant that I was relying on randoms in a game where teamwork was vital.

So, as a somewhat casual but invested gamer, I’d like to see the format of the game take from Evolve’s story telling ethos, which is to say that I can play hundreds of Co-op games, and over those experiences start to piece together the story of the world and history. These games should ideally be balanced and crafted around 20-30 minutes long, allowing people to play between 1-3 games in a session before then having to quit for another day.

If the narrative experience requires multiple chapters, as per the L4D games, then it’d be great if they could be run through by a team, but also don’t need to be. i.e. if I’ve reached chapter 2 of campaign 1, then I should be able to in the future search for other people looking to hop in at that chapter and carry on exploring the story from the point I left it off.

It would be remiss of me if I didn’t give a shout out to the solo players that would want to also do this exploration with bots, or use “offline” mode to explore and test the different weapons and variables available to them.

If I had a preference I’d love to see written characters (though probably more than just 4 to choose from) that bring different narrative experiences during co-op, but I’d love it if we could essentially make our own characters for PvP. I think if I had a game where I was levelling up my account, unlocking perks (as per my post before), upgrades, whatever and these were applicable to both PvP and PvE modes I’d have an even better reason to keep coming back to the game.

I am generally with people that would prefer to see this as something that went beyond just zombies, in to something darker, or more fantastical in its horror. I think you do this so well but, I’m also ok with Zombies.

But my primary thing, more than anything, is about that game experience as someone that can only put in around an hour a day, 4 or 5 days a week. Experiences need to be short enough to fit a couple of games in, and/or not be a situation where you can die and then just feel like you’ve wasted your time. I don’t think hero shooter stuff is great, I don’t mind it but I would definitely prefer the game to be focused on team vs team rather than group of heroes vs group of (evil) heroes, but giving the ability to personalise, and tune, individual play-styles a little would be a great way to encourage more playing to find that right combination of perks/upgrades etc.

I know more hardcore people will have more of an opinion on PvP, especially when it comes to wanting to make it a competitive experience, personally I just hope that in general online play you continue to explore balancing options that help a group of solo queuing randoms from just getting trounced by partied groups. I really appreciated what you were doing in Evolve, even though it’s likely that was a much more complicated beast that balancing between two equal sized (but still asymmetrical) teams would be.

whispers Is it too early to say how interesting it would be at some point in such a game’s lifecycle to have a mode where an extra person can join as the “evil” player in co-op to fulfil an AI director style role? I know this isn’t a unique thing in games, I’m sure it got floated by L4D fans at the time, and it treads close to the whole 4v1 thing, but I’ve always enjoyed the merging of a quintessentially single player experience with a multi-player one against each other.

Edit: @MaddCow I think I basically want to see L4D but with elements taken from Hunt Showdown, Evolve and Natural Selection. This says more about me than what constitutes a good game though!

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#277

Yarp
10 Cows

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#278

Perhaps I should explain a bit more. It’s not the classes I’m recommending, although they certainly are an option. In Alien Swarm, each individual character has a unique set of bonuses which is different from all others, including other characters of the same class. This helps each character have unique gameplay without being hero-shooter levels of different. (Ex: Jaeger, the character I mentioned, has bonuses to shotgun, health and explosive, pointing him at frontlining with explosives as a backup plan. His counterpart in the same class instead has a bigger health bonus and more passive bonuses for his team, as well as a generic damage bonus, hinting at more flexibilty and safety.)

Were it to be selectable perks, then characters would be the same, with just the chosen perks put onto them. I believe character = fixed perk set is a better design because of several reasons:

  • A handcrafted playstyle which the devs can more finely balance and “make fun”.
  • The ability for players to feel smart when they break the mold and play a character slightly different from the intended way (making use of his bonuses in a unconventional style).
  • No need to worry about certain perks comboing in game-breaking ways, causing certain combinations to become auto-pick-together. (Potentially forcing so many nerfs that they are now useless when used alone, defeating the purpose of customisation.)
  • The unique combination of bonuses can feed into the character’s lore and personality, and vice versa, creating a more cohesive and memorable identity.

Mainly, though, I like the last point the most. If it is well designed, even the gameplay bonuses can help to tell a great story and flesh out a character. Like how in Evolve, Maggie’s traps say she is calm and methodical, Hyde’s weapons tell how twisted his personality is, Cabot’s high-risk high-reward playstyle suggest experience and confidence, Emet’s tendency to switch between damage and healing reflects his twin personalities… I could go on but you get the idea.

That duality would be a very nice thing to have, and fit each playmode well, but it would be developmentally expensive to make two different systems, and some players might never see half the content created. Depending on the goals of the dev team they might have to pick one and use it for both, so I’d hope they can find a fitting system that works for both story and sandboxy modes.

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#279

Well, we’re at a stage where we don’t know what’s actually expensive or not, nor that anything anyone wishes to suggest is ever actually anything more than wishlist, so I don’t know that this is the time to talk about development cost. Let TRS read what people like, or would be excited by, and decide if any of that fits into their paradigm or inspires them.

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#280

I pair of dimes is only 5 cents short of a quarter! :smiley:

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#281

YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE A FANTASTIC IDEA?

Have two developers. One Developer makes the world, it can even be a themed setup like the 'Good" side of the world population with great guards and whatever.

Then the second companys job is to come in with the altermate force and they just try and disrupt the good world as much as they can.

Then, the good world is allowed to change up and make things different and harder for the other programmers making the dark half.

They keep rotating until a story has been born out of the chaos.

and as players, we pick sides and do out best to figure things out as we play though the madness. we would be the citizens

it could be called Citizen Chaos or Chaos Citizen just for an idea

#282

How do people type such long responses, my thumb hurts from all the scrolling :unamused:

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#283

Keyboard. :wink::smirk:

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#284

Easy there, MaddCow. I worked on that game! :wink:

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#285

but yeah, Hellgate did need some work…

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