Val's Tranqs and Caira's healing Balance discussion


#1

I’m shocked that this last balance patch didn’t reduce Caira’s OP healing. She heals herself and her teammates way too fast for what a medic is supposed to do in this game. Now let me make a suggestion that I think is a great way to balance it out. Now I say we reduce her healing to Val’s level (or just a reasonable amount at least) but make the healing grenades proximity based like Hyde’s Toxic Stink bombs.

Now for Val’s tranqs. I don’t know what went through the devs minds with this but why would you make the slowing effect same for all the monsters? And 10 seconds? You’re joking right? I think the tranqs’ slowing effect should act like real tranqs; where their status of effect is based on how bulky and big a monster is with the same dose distributed (since Val’s gun always gives the same dose). Like for Wraith it should last the longest since she’s slim and not bulky and let’s give her the 10 second effect. Then Kraken should have it effect him for let’s say 7 seconds. Then Goliath for either 3 or 4 seconds. Then Behemoth should have it for 2 seconds at most.

“But Bagel, if the tranqs last so little time on the bigger monsters, what would be the point of using a Val against them?”

Well here let me tell ya the twist. Since the bigger the monster, the less time the slowing effect, affects the monster, but here’s what I propose. How about we take the outlining effect and make it so the longer the slowing effect is, the less exposing there is for the monster. And the less slowing effect there is, the more time being exposed with the outlining. Now that is what I’d call balance. What do you guys, the community think? Do you think whether you’re a monster or a hunter, that these would be a fair change for the better? I certainly do, but I want to hear what you guys have to say because we are all in this together. @MacMan @SlabOMeat @MrStrategio


#2

I feel like Val’s healing should be raised, rather than lowering Caira’s healing.

What does this mean? Caira’s healing grenades are already proximity based. Do you mean an overtime heal while hunters stay in an area? Cuz I don’t like that idea. I would consider giving her grenades healing fallout where they heal for the largest amount near the center of the impact.

No that is dumb. It should be based on what is balanced for each monster to experience.

That doesn’t justify it. The reason Val’s healing is weaker than Caira’s is because Val’s tranqs are a strong combat debuff. The revealing aspect of it is the least powerful part of it and you should understand that.


#3

I mean if the balls get near the other hunters they go off and heal them. Although your idea about making the healing differ on how close they are to the center is even better!

No it’s not. It’s reasonable and I gave a way to counter it with the outlining effect I proposed.

Yes it does. It give the hunters more of a lead on the monster is they play the bigger ones thus giving the trapper a chance to cut him off. And that part about why Val’s healing is weaker part I think is a dumb way to support her healing rate. Her healing rate is smaller because the medgun stays on a target even through a long range thus not having to continuously aim and shoot healing grenades and hope they hit the intended target and I think you should understand that.

You are just trolling right? I mean if not lol (no offence)


#4

I don’t see why you want to nerf val so damn much. She’s finally in a good spot. Caira is fine, heals are all she brings to the table pretty much and she can’t keep someone being focused up without shield support.


#5

I respect your opinion, but I disagree entirely. I don’t want to nerf her. Nerfing to me is an unfair balance change that weakens a character too much. I think the points I proposed are actually very fair. And Caira’s healing has always been OP. Oh well. I can’t influence everyone and no offence I guess you haven’t versed a well coordinated team yet or you like Caira so favored bias takes effect. It happens. It’s human nature to support something we all like. I fight my human nature every time I make these posts because I like a lot of the characters I talk about.


#6

Tranc wouldn’t be worth using with your system. The slow is far more potent then you give it credit for, particularily on a fleeing monster that loses combat stamina. The vision is far less important unless you have cabot. And nerfs are weakening a character regardless of how much.

I think in 180-200 or so hours I’ve faced enough caira’s to know how to whipe them, even coordinated premades. I main monster, I’m defending what I enjoy fighting against and find balanced. Val is a pain in the ass but that’s her job more then healing, caira’s is to heal well.


#7

Counter what? I am saying it is dumb because it is suggesting a game mechanic should be purely based in what would make sense over what would be better for the game.

It doesn’t really matter how much it reveals. It is the gun’s least important feature, why you are suggest it should take a bigger role on bigger monsters is beyond me. I disagree, having a combat slow is why Val wasn’t given more access to healing. Having other tasks that require high accuracy is why the medgun is so simple to use.

No I am not. I do take offense. Why are you suggesting that I should be trolling? My belief that Val should be healing more is in the fact that she cannot handle split damage at all and she does not have acceptable self sustain so she is unable to reasonably undo damage the monster inflicts on her.


#8

I’ve had a lot of time facing teams like that too. But I still disagree with you. I like Ascended’s idea though.

That way they can stay the level of healing they are, but it varies based on how close or how far they are from the center of the ball. And you have every right to defend what you believe in. That morality I support.


#9

I was saying the reveals would counter the less slowing problem. And I don’t think the way she is now is better for the game. I think it isn’t justified to be honest.

Yes it does. The reveal factor gives the hunters a better chance to predict where the monster going thus using that information to coordinate a strategy to cut him off and try to dome him. And the reason I’m saying it should take a bigger role on bigger monsters is so it could counter the less slowing effect.

Now you just gave me an idea since you are very correct. I think maybe her healing burst should recharge a little bit faster, but not too fast to the point the monster can’t kill her though. Or have it heal herself more than it would her teammates.


#10

Well I was suggesting that have the slow timer be as long or as short as it makes sense for any monster rather than just having one system of “This monster is bigger so it gets slowed for a smaller portion of time”. It would be clear to me that it makes more sense to do a system like I am suggesting rather than a system that is based in arbitrary factors like you are suggesting.

You know what helps the hunters keep track of the monster? A slower monster. You know what helps the hunters cut the monster off? A slower monster. You know how many shits I would give if the hunters see me for say 20 seconds after being shot by a tranq? 0.

The number I would throw out would be 50% more self healing from heal bursts. And I dunno, maybe a 5% heal rate buff to her medgun.


#11

I still haven’t read one valid reason in this thread as to why you want to change trancs. Is there a reason or something? You mentioned a change but never explained why.


#12

no caira is fine.

get good

learn how to counter and stop crying for nerfs god damn it


#13

Caira isn’t OP, she’s the ONLY Medic that’s consistent and works well with almost any comp. I’m not going to factor in Slim since he just came out.

Val and Laz both have glaring weaknesses that prevent them from being picked as often as Caira and frankly they need tweaks still.


#14

It’s not arbitrary at all. It has plenty of reason because it’s based on real life factors. You do know the bigger something is, a certain dose of tranqs would effect it less than something that’s smaller than it right? That’s why when a human is given the dosage of a horse, it could kill them while with a horse it’ll just put it to sleep. So far your system seems arbitrary to be honest.

Also the reveal factor in case the monster would try to do a clutch juke like I’ve done plenty of times. The slowing does help them cut off the monster because they have a better chance to catch up to the monster, but so does the reveal factor because it shows where they are heading. And if you don’t care if they see you for 20 seconds then that’s fine. Plus that’s more than enough time for the team to come up with a plan to catch up to you and dome you unless they can’t somehow come up with that logic.

I’d like those numbers except make the last one 7% instead of 5%


#15

You mad bro?


#16

Real life factors are in this case arbitrary. If it makes more gameplay sense for a Kraken to be slowed longer than a Wraith, then why should the Wraith be slowed longer than the Kraken?


#17

Real life factors can be arbitrary yes because in real life a Goliath could just grab a hunter and rip them in half with little effort. But for this I think it’ll fit the balancing to better suit this game. Why Kraken is to be slowed less that the Wraith? I think he has a bit more bulk than Wraith. I could be mistaken though.


#18

This. Caira is not picked because she’s broken, she’s just the only medic (except maybe Slim now) who can keep up. Val can’t keep up, Lazarus is hard countered by smart play.

Lazarus will take more to fix, Val just needs a better self-heal. The tranq buff is just going to punish bad monsters at stage 1 but not help her at all stage 2 or stage 3. She would be viable with some kind of “heal feedback” from her medgun where it heals her target and herself. Something like that would help her much more than any tranq buff.

I agree with the idea that it seems unfair and not balanced for a Goliath or Behemoth to take just as long of a slow as a Wraith does.


#19

I explained it quite clearly. I have a mindset to where I think these would actually balance out the game with bias put aside for better reliability. I honestly don’t understand how you couldn’t know what I was saying even though it’s literally right in front of you :confused:


#20

He is probably looking for something along the lines of why you think they would be beneficial changes rather than your non answer of: I think these changes are good.