Unforeseen Consequence of Turret Change


#1

So my friends an i have been playing evolve all day today and we played some evac. Turns out (or at least as per my friend who was monster when it happened) had gotten turrets from fusion plant map effect after monster lost there. The turrets did hardly any damage and were easy enough to take out as well.

I’m in the camp of people who think/know that defend was fine before the turret change and now with it defend is extremely easy. as a wraith i have nearly a cake walk with it and going to the opposite side of the spectrum behemoth is an auto win. having an already good behemoth player even with the turret buff map effect from defend has an easy win. we could barely get him down to half health by the time the power source was destroyed and there was at least 5, maybe 6 minutes left on the clock. he was able to steam roll right through us.

we’re all of a similar skill level so its not a get good thing or we could of done something different thing. it was hell in a hand basket, whether its behemoth, wraith, any monster has it way too easy now. i can only guess it was done for randoms in quick play that play it but still… is there any way to bring the threat level of them back up? even somewhere close so that way not only defend can be balanced again but so that way the map effect can be good again too


#2

People relied on those turrets way too much in my opinion.


#3

Don’t rely on the turrets. Bring a good trapper.

Dome the monster before the generators. A Hank is super awesome for dropping the minions quick also. Focus more on timing him out and the monster will overcommit in an attempt to down the generator.

Defend is balanced. If you play smart, it’s very hunter favored still.


#4

Defend shouldn’t be devolved into another Hunt. The purpose of Defend is supposed to be to DEFEND. Right now it’s 100% Monster-favored. Being forced to play Defend as if it was Hunt is proof that it needs major balancing in favor of Hunters.


#5

Edit: this topic seems to be about the turret map effect for evacuation, not the actual turrets in defend. I’m posting my comment in that other topic :slightly_smiling:


#6

i would have to beg to differ. i love monster but if a wraith has nearly as easy of a time as a behemoth in defend at winning… that isnt skill that the game mode going from balanced to unbalanced in the blink of a patch.

like yes like you and @Katt said hunters shouldnt relay on turrets but it is DEFEND after all. Thats the whole point. is to be able to sit back and wait for the monster attacks. now its pretty much impossible. EDIT: its not really relying on the turrets but having them as back up for the team but now they are crippled pea shooters :frowning:

sure if you run a premade team into quick play against random monsters of course it will appear “balanced” but you play against equal or better monsters and it becomes a cake walk.

basically what happens is that the monster takes minor health damage, minions killed but the team gets wiped, turrets destroyed and generator finished off. hunters wait on dropship while monster precedes to destroy next set of turrets and attack gen2 and the minions spawn 20-30 before hunters drop to help finish off gen2. they move on to gen3 attacking turrets as monster while minions do 1/4-1/3 of damage to gen3 while hunters come in to kill off minions and scare off monster. a good monster could run to armor up or wait for minions or just attempt another team wipe or hell nearly ignore the hunters and attack gen3. its a much much easier win with monster than hunters because unless you think that hunters can just dome a stage 3 monster with full health and armor with 2 minions and come out on top at the end… you ARE playing against lower skilled monsters which shows that balance isnt even at the forefront of the discussion.

sorry if im sounding at all hostile, its just that i thought defend was perfect because my friends and i would play customs and it USED to be fair but since hte patch if we do defend or evac into defend day5 then its an auto monster win. i guess we could test to see if hunters lose the first 3 games, win day4 so there is 2 balance points towards hunters and turrets do extra damage… but that wouldnt exactly be a normal defend match so balanced discussions go out the window


#7

Defend is still incredibly Hunter-favored if your team knows what it’s doing, but if so much as ONE teammate thinks you should actually defend in a gamemode called DEFEND, you’re gonna get steamrolled by the Monster.

I wouldn’t label Defend mode as simply unbalanced because that’s too black and white. There’s simply a far too big balance swift between casuals and premades in this gamemode and you know something is wrong when a gamemode called DEFEND is most easily won by not defending.


#8

i dont believe it. so what you just chase the monster and win in a single dome or 2? like sure if a premade is going against a random monster in quick play then i totally agree but your telling me you play customs with your friends and choose to play defend and still think its hunter favored? what could be so different that my friends and i are having problems with? im just not sold on the idea that its hunter favored right now


#9

The old turrets were so OP, how can you say it was fine before? Maybe felt like it cus you made the monster struggle. Monster players know this.


#10

It was better because it made the Monsters fight strategically and the Hunters focus on the point of the mode, which is to DEFEND. When the mode forces Hunters to treat Defend as if it were Hunt, that’s a sign of how broken the mode is. But it wasn’t “fine”, it was still heavily favored towards Monsters. Defend is the one mode where the advantage should be with the Hunters.


#11

Defend has always been the shittiest unbalanced mode, imo.


#12

On PC the game is still highly Hunter-favored, I can’t speak for the other platforms. The ability to continually harass the Monster in a tiny map with no fear of strikes and a super quick dropship? Easy peasy.

Both you and TRS follow the false assumption that a stage 3 Monster can steamroll the Hunter team - but again, (on PC) a team without strikes is equal in strength to a stage 3 Monster, if not even stronger.

I don’t mean to turn this into a platform war or a strategy discussion, but going straight for the Monster in Defend is right now your best bet to win Defend as the Hunters, and my team has had no problems against even some of the best Monster players using this strategy.

We win in about 2 domes, not like the Monster has the space to flee and recover inbetween those domes anyway with Defend’s tiny map size.


#13

wow then pc monster just dont know how to play defend then nor how to focus well. i am on console and i love playing monster but even against my equals its so easy as monster. back when turrets were very strong i actually had to be careful and it would come down to the wire even if the trapper either chased after me or held the dome until i tried fleeing or advancing.


#14

Teams being able to do more damage makes a big difference in perception of balance.


#15

I told you not to derail this thread into a platform war.
But if you want to go that way, fine. Here it is.
The difference isn’t that PC Monsters don’t know to focus, it’s that console Hunters can’t dodge anything and their aim is all over the place.

Even console players acknowledged this. It’s not really a problem unless like in your case someone tries to defend his/her playstyle by falsely assuming that the only reason this wouldn’t work on other platforms is because the players on those other platforms must be doing something wrong.

But sure, you want to talk about Defend on different platforms? Then let me tell you a little secret. The reason you think playing Monster in Defend is easy even against your “equals” is because either those “equals” probably have no clue what they’re doing or they’re equal in the sense that you both don’t know how screwed up Defend is right now.

Were you to give it a shot against PC Hunters who know how to win Defend? You’d get absolutely rekt. Because that’s Defend right now. Get a decent team and go straight for the Monster = easy win. I don’t feel like arguing about that even further because on these forums it’s considered some kind of taboo to point out how console Hunters are worse at dodging and aiming even though the evidence is right there.

Defend is balanced the wrong way. Yes.
But no, it’s not simply Monster-favored and no, if you were indeed facing “equals” then you wouldn’t win so easily. Either that or “equal” in your case means Hunters who have no clue how to win in the current state of Defend.
Now please let us stop discussing this unrelated part of the issue.


Now back on topic. It mentions a really serious issue and it comes down to actually defending in Defend not being a particularly rewarding strategy.
@Sepiablitz had a good suggestion in another thread about decreasing the generators’ health but preventing the minions from doing any damage to it while being shot at. That would definitely help force the Hunters to defend.


#16

I know that before this patch it was easy. Thats what I know about since Im a monster player.
I tested the damage on the turrets because we were chasing the monster down, it was the third relay, it had full health, almost had killed the monster. In one wave, the two minions had gotten the relay down to 1/4.


#17

Imo defend was alway a win for a behemoth, meaning it always needed a rework. This nerf was to stop the pro evolve teams who would hunt the monster and not defend.

The update fucked over pub, meaning it needs a better solution and not just a turret solution.