Didn't TRS's previous publisher go under (THQ was it?) and so the rights/licenses were auctioned off. TRS were basically in a lottery as to who published their game, they say they got lucky by being partnered with 2K.
TRS has kept their promise. I agree when you said that they were the first developer you've trusted in a long time, and I feel the same way. Allow me to address your concerns:
They confirmed that you can buy the 4th, 5th and 6th Hunter teams, as well as the 4th and 5th monsters. NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN MADE. What the company is doing is essentially this: They have created a game with 3 monsters and 3 hunter teams. All that is done. Finished, packaged, in the game. Everything else- EVERYTHING- all that you mentioned in your post, all that they offer as DLC, is NOT FINISHED. As a matter of fact, the only thing from your list that is even being worked on right now is the 4th monster, Behemoth, and he is not even close to being done. The 4th hunters are still an IDEA- I doubt that they have more than some concept art to show for them. As for the 5th Monster, and the 5th and 6th teams? They probably don't even know what they are going to make for those- all they know is that they will make them.
So they haven't ""split the game apart before release" nor have they any plans to sell what should've been in the game as DLC. So trust me when I say this:
Turtle Rock Studios has not changed. They haven't done anything wrong- They have done their utmost to provide us with the game we want. They have been fair. They have listened. Everything that was finished was put into the base game- they probably tried to add Behemoth, but couldn't finish him in time. You were right- these guys were worthy of our trust.
And they still are.
Everyone can still play together. So if you have tier 5 monster, but I just have the standard game, we can still play together and thus my game is enriched by an additional monster to fight against.
What everyone needs to keep in mind is that (as far as I am aware), the game is done. It has been sent off, and people are starting to make physical copies. If people complain about stuff in the beta, they might be able to fix it in a day 1 update, but apart from that, they're done with the base game.
So at the moment, they will be developing extra modes, maps and yes, working on the new DLC stuff, as the game is now out of their hands. So nothing is "cut off". They are paying people to stay on longer so that they can continue to develop the game, and make small tweaks if, after a couple of months, everyone thinks that wraith is OP or whatever.
They've always said they want to develop the game, and here is them doing that. Bear in mind that we probably won't even get our hands on this extra stuff till around April.
Basically 100% of your problem is with 2K. When THQ, their old publisher went bust the IP and development contract was put up for sale. TRS have no choice in this, they are under contract to make the game. 2K get to make all the decisions in terms of price etc.
From what I can tell TRS have stood firm on protecting the community from being split and not being ripped off by having to buy stuff they didn't want.
I think TRS do the right thing, 2K are a publisher and lots of people have varying opinions on their practices.
Other forum members have already taken up the mantle for your concerns but I will say this, I hope you continue to have faith in TRS. They are keeping nothing from the community and are gamers making this game for gamers. However, the DLC pricing and such are determined by 2K and the business world. It's just the politics side of things. And yes, sadly, you probably will not get a direct answer from the devs due to their contracts other than to say that this game is already a finished product...everything they are working on right now is future-planned DLC stuff. They didn't hold anything back, just planning for keeping the game fresh and alive for the future.
Well, then i really hope that next time they will not even think about working with such a greedy publishers, and will renew their work with Valve (that would be the best option), or just use Kickstarter (since they have so many people who know who they are and what they can do - founding any kind of project will be easy).
Still kinda sad that they messed with those people, who making them even step over their promises, but i understand how the world of buisness works, and how it kill everything good, that was left in this world. I have hope that in the future all the developers around the wolrd will quit working with people like 2k, and turn to services like kickstarter, leaving term "publisher" forgotten.
Well then, since dev's will not respond... Thanks for all who tried to explain the situation to me. Have a good day)
I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess as to how much Evolve cost to make, but considering it's been in development for over four years it's way out of the league of a Kickstarter (Star Citizen aside, and that's had lots of advertising deals and such to supplement costs). Games cost tens of millions to make, Kickstarter's are lucky if they can scrape in $1M.
Thanks for the feedback. We appreciate hearing from you guys, as always.
Let me clear a few things up for you first...
A lot of folks seem to be under the impression that we've got all this content done and we shave off a hunk to sell separately. That just isn't the case. When Evolve hits the shelves, none of the DLC will be done. Behemoth won't be done. None of the planned DLC hunters or monsters will be done. The only exception to this might be some skins that were working on now while we wait for all the final stages of packaging, manufacturing etc. to finish.
If we thought we could have finished all those monsters and hunters for ship we would have put them in the box. (Keep in mind, we pretty much have to have the game done about 2-3 months before it's available to you guys...we can keep fixing bugs and such, but content is locked.) The bundles that include 4th and 5th monsters, hunters, etc., just mean that when they are done and we put 'em out, you get 'em.
Hunters and monsters are a pretty big undertaking, they cost a lot of money and time to make. We're hoping that once people see how much new hunters and monsters bring to the game that they'll feel like they got their money's worth.
As we got closer to finishing Evolve we ended up with designs for a bunch of monster and hunters that we just didn't have the time and money to make. Instead of throw them all out, why not put together a budget to make them as DLC? Means more content for the people who love the game and want more. It also means all those ideas get to see the light of day. Oh yeah, and it means more work for TRS and we can keep paying our bills and making cool stuff!
That's all well and good...but our number one rule for DLC is never split the community. Never.
So we worked it out so that any DLC maps are free, any new game modes are free. Then, recognizing that not everyone wants to buy DLC, we made sure that even if you didn't purchase any of the paid content, you could still play with people who did! So if I buy a new monster or hunter, and you don't, we can still play together. You may not want to buy it, but your original purchase of the game will be enhanced by it anyway because you can still get into games with people who wanted to buy them. Hell, you can even set the DLC characters and monsters up as opponents in solo games.
Boom! Your game experience is enhanced, no purchase necessary. Obviously, we hope you like the DLC enough to buy it, but no hard feelings if not. We're still happy that you bought Evolve!
And NO, we won't be purposely making DLC hunters and monster overpowered to make people feel like they HAVE to buy them to stay competitive. We plan to keep things as balanced as possible for as long as people are playing the game.
What has changed about Turtle Rock from the old CS L4D days?
Well, we've had to leave the nice safe coral reef that was Valve and swim out into shark infested waters. (Pardon the analogy.) Working with Valve was a truly unique experience, not perfect, but definitely had its advantages in that they work at their own speed and largely on their own terms. They can do that because they have Steam and are more or less a privately owned company. (No stock market and all that goes with it.) Steam is so successful that it allows them to approach game development from an angle that no-one else in the game industry can, and working with them back then imparted those benefits to us by association.
It helped that in the L4D days, we were never bigger than 13 people. The industry has changed since then and we've had to grow a lot. We're sitting at about 90+ at the moment (which is still considered small) and still growing. I like to think we're still the same down to earth guys we were then, trying to make great games in a very tough industry.
The bundles are options, nothing more. IF you plan to buy all that stuff anyway then you can get a bundle with all that content at a discount. Not a new concept, businesses have been doing that since money was invented. I've bought passes for games where I felt burned and I've bought passes for games and was happy with my purchase. But that's a personal choice, as is any purchase. All of those different tiers are there to provide options.
Ultimately, TRS makes the games, we don't sell them...and as the developers we've done our best to make a game that people want to play. We then have to trust our publisher to make the best decision on how to sell that game. We've done everything we could to keep this stuff as open to choice as possible and despite how it may look to some, there isn't anything here that forces people to spend more money than they are comfortable with. We feel like all of the Evolve bundles that 2K announced just offer people choices, and having choices isn't a bad thing.
Tier Four Hunters Revealed
Evolve have few monsters
4th Tier Hunters
Best. Response. Ever.
There are ONLY 90 of you? So 90 people made this game? 90? Are your employees all Jesus or something? You guys Rock... In fact, you Turtley Rock.
Love it. Good stuff ahead I can see. Even though I won't be buying DLC at full price (Steam sales whoooo!) I'll probably snatch up any non-vanity DLC you release.
This describes me perfectly. A $100 is a lot to put down for a game. Any game.
But I do plan to buy all the DLC as soon as available and the individual price point does seem a bit high imo. So this monster edition was a great deal to me, saves me about $35 after all of it comes out, I get it as soon as it's available, and now I don't really have to put money down on this game again. I put down my flat payment, now I just get to enjoy the game and the new content as it comes out without paying anymore.
I really hope they make a monster season pass so u get all monsters for a discounted price. I don't really wanna buy the hunters but any new monster I will buy no matter what!
Valve isn't interested in picking up games since they're focused on Steam and their own projects. When they started Evolve they needed to pitch their idea to publishers to get funding for a big project. THQ took them on but because they had troubles they went belly-up and auctioned Evolve off to 2K.
Competitive, what a shiny nice word.
Now imagine: L4D with a tank, spitter and assault rifle DLC. Yes, we can play with people who don't have them but if no one have them, are we competitive? Not really, the game is about strategy, because of the asymetric gameplay, and without all the pieces in our hand, we can't play it "competitive", like i will not be able to play competitive at chess, if I don't have tower or queen.
people were complaining during beta that 60€ for the amount of content you want to put in is way too much (60€ for a pc game is way too high, only cod and AC have done that, and they are not the best selling on pc because of that) and announcing that you'll make a season pass and stuff are really not pleasing people outside of this forum. I hope your game will not fail, but if it's the case, it'll not be because it's a bad game, but because of it's pricing choice.
But Evolve is designed so you always have one of each class as the hunters. Removing the Tank from L4D, or the spitter, is huge as they are their own specific role within the fabric of the game. The hunters are designed to overlap and have their own style that requires mastering. Playing with Val instead of New Medic #4 doesn't mean you're terrible, it just means you can't use healing totempoles and have to use your healing beam instead... different playstyles, but not better or worse.
This is a terrible comparison. L4D was designed with the intention of some characters playing a required role or being stronger than others. Chess without the rook or queen would be chess without more powerful pieces and down a few pieces.
In Evolve, not having the Behemoth is not going to make you play with one less monster nor are any of the DLC characters intended to be the strongest in their roles. You aren't down one hunter because you didn't buy the fourth support, you just play another support who works differently but is just as viable. Heck, you can't even see your opponent's choices in the lobby until everybody's locked in so you don't need access to every monster or hunter for the sake of counterpicking. You just pick up what you like the look of.
Have you seen their pics? Some of them clearly ARE Jesus.
Dat beard do. O_o
if this is another topic crying about the price or pre-order DLC content. i swear...