Turret nerf makes it too easy to win as monster


#1

So now that the turrets in Defend have been nerfed it has become laughably easy to win as a monster, and it was super easy to win before but now its all but guaranteed.

The health is now low enough I can kill a turret with one rock throw before moving on to the second and then dashing out before I even take the smallest amount of armor damage. Now that I removed both turrets in under 3 seconds I safely re-armor and come back in and easily destroy the generator before moving onto the next one.

Its so much easier to break them now that even the hunters doming me to buy time doesn’t matter. I can wait out the entire dome if I want to and still easily win.


#2

So true! We just skip defend.


#3

I usually play it because I honestly enjoy the game mode but after playing it today since the patch release is not even a challenge anymore.


#4

It’s still possible to kill the Monster.

Hunters just need to treat it like Hunt and focus on the Monster mainly and Dome the prick when he destroys the Turrets or gets his/her Armor low.

Might be just playing with some Hunters that don’t know what to do.

Hell the other night had a AI Team take on a Goliath Player.

I mained Emet with a Bucket, Jack and Torvald AI. Goliath Player was a decent Player and Super annoying with his Laz Jukes last game or so but we killed him before he got past the first Generator.

Had to hotswap to Jack to Dome him in as he tried to run. Went back to Emet and did my thing. Bucket did whatever… Torvald was landing those Mortars with AI accuracy. Towards the end the Monster used the last five bars of health after the Dome dropped to try and get the Turrets gone but I took over Torvald and charged his ass with him and killed him easy.

Although the Player said that Goliath isn’t his Monster but my point still stands. It depends on the team and how they are used. Defend will usually consist of Pubs and randoms. Wouldn’t consider the easy win a good one since we have a couple of ancient returns and a few new comers.

Getting easy wins in Defend is like getting easy wins in Hunt due to the same reason. Dumb people.


#5

I’m glad someone’s brought this up…

For me Defend has always been monster favoured, especially with regards to access to buffs. Sure, if you are a pre-made hunter team against an equal or lesser skilled monster you’ll win comfortably enough by playing it as if it were Hunt, but the monster players that have clearly played Defend a bunch really know what they’re doing and it’s pretty hard to do much about it as a hunter team.

The abilities are first used to take out the turrets (now an easier task) before running off and re-armouring. Better teams will stop the run away but sensible monsters understand that this is the last point in the game in which they’ll have to really trade significant health, and will head off.

Better hunter teams chase at this point, which is a shame as it runs counter to the ethos of the mode.

But if everything goes as it normally does then the second wave of minions come in and do their work on the generator, and with the split in attention it’s really not a hug task for the monster to incap everyone.

Note… incap everyone. People bleed out over time, during this time the monster has moved on and taken out the next turrets, by the time you’re back in the game the second generator has just been destroyed and they’re all moving on ahead of you to the final objective.

A brief repeat of the first generator and at the end of the day a stage 3 monster with minions that understands their abilities is really in control.

I’m sure the data showed monsters lose more than hunters do, but as always the monsters include people like me that don’t play monster regularly, let alone defend, on quickplay. I will personally welcome these changes if I’m playing monster, but I don’t think that’s a good balance direction.

With the meta shift coming in the future title update it’ll be interesting to see how Defend needs to be catered for because it’s a situation where those longer durations of incapacitation are actually just going to make it easier still for a monster to win.


#6

I’m not even having any trouble with known good players. I haven’t lost a game of Defend in a long time. Even when people use the same strategies I employ as a hunter to get a win I still pull out on top as a monster player. I even consider myself to be a mediocre monster player at best. I barely maintain a 1 to 1 win/loss ratio on any given monster yet I go largely undefeated on this game mode.

I have found it monster favored for a long time now and this turret nerf has just pushed it even farther in to my favor.


#7

Defend is still super easy to win as the Hunters, but it depends on the team.

Most Defend matches in pubs result in the Trapper following one strategy and the Assault another.
But you have to decide to either focus on the minions and properly defend OR just go straight for the Monster.

I see it all the time. Assault tries to go for the Monster but Trapper never throws a dome and just camps on top of the generator. Or vice versa.

The silly thing is that I’d figured TRS wanted Defend to become about… well, defending.
But if anything, this change makes going straight for the Monster while completely ignoring the minions an even better strategy.
Even with the nerfed turret damage, you have a lot of time to focus all your attention on simply hunting the stage 3 Monster without the fear of strikes before the minions start hammering on the final generator’s health bar.

None of the Defend-specific strategies people have tried to generously suggest for the Monster work at that point.
You can’t alternate the dropship effectively.
You can’t quickly destroy the turrets and then back out.
You’ll be focused by Hunters who don’t give a rat’s ass about dying, in a game where Hunters without strikes are pretty much equal in strength to a full health stage 3 Monster and now, to top it all off, Hunters are pretty much immortal.

Again - simply hunting the Monster in Defend is still the counter to all Monster strategies for that gamemode and you’re stuck with a really bad team if you can’t win this way.


#8

And that’s the point. For those of us playing Defend as it’s intended these changes only further entrench the Monster dominance while not making a difference to those playing Hunt on a defend map.


#9

I have been finding myself even against the good hunters largely ignoring them. If you get domed you just have to bounce around if you know you cant fight them head on.

And heck, if you are a Goliath main like me you can use your bouncing around to do more damage to the generator. Use that leap smash towards the generator during your jukes. It saves time.

Most good teams don’t pick Sunny during Defend as they focus on pure damage so you shouldn’t have to worry about not being able to re-armor once the dome drops. They can only keep up with your speed for so long.

Its gotten to the point I hardly ever have to leave at the last power source for more armor. I can just tank the attacks the hunters push my way while I destroy it basically ignoring them and my own life total for the most part.


#10

Ahh ok. I get it.

But I consider the title “too easy to win as Monster” and isn’t that the problem when actually defending?
I’m not saying Defend is Hunter-favored, it’s just easy to win as the Hunters.

Exactly that.
Not to turn your own quote against you (though I’m not sure what your PoV is on the issue) but it seems like properly defending the generator was more balanced than just straight up hunting the Monster.
I feel like the turret nerf promotes the annoying hunting playstyle more in Defend now.


Also, and please don’t focus on this specific part of my post,

…I feel like this is hardly ever the case against a good Hunter team.
They will melt you quickly and a good dome will prevent any chances of mitigation.

You could go for the Trapper ASAP to get out but the Hunters, despite being paired up against a stage 3 Monster, will hold out fairly long and will do significant health damage to you.


#11

my friends and i pretty much only play customs, once in a while we’ll do some defends games and i have to say its 50/50ish. the monster now can take out those turrets faster but in defend those generators are in good defendable spots to which if the trapper domes the monster near but not directly at the generator then the monster will have a tough time staying alive. Bob is always a good pick but everyone else it gets tought fast. the 1st gen is the most hunter favored, 2nd gen is monster favored or at least fair to both sides, and the last is fair but a lot of health with extra 2 turrets.

people have brought up defend here and there saying it isnt balanced for one reason or another but it comes down to the same thing every evolve match comes down to. positioning, team comp synergy vs monster pick, proper use of kit, and of course teamwork (or in monsters case timing or forcing hunters to make a bad play but thats harder :confused: )

i love defend, always have and always will so maybe im biased about it however, theres times i win when the hunters nearly had me, and theres times i lose when i feel like im winning. at the end of the day its a different game mode but the game is the same. tactics may vary but adapt and overcome :smiley:


#12

I feel that for the most parts there isn’t too many amazing dome spots near the generator. Most have some loops.


#13

I won’t deny that, it may well do and that would be a shame!


#14

From my playtime, observation and what I’ve read on the forums Defend seems to be too polarizing of a game mode.

In the beginning it was very monster favored because of a lot of balance issues,
Then it was a very hunter favored mode that went on for several months what with how weak the monsters were at the time and little armor they had,
After a while the mode had a few changes that made it more monster favored mod,
Until Defend went into quick play it was going back where it became a hunter favored mode what with hunters learning that you can dome the monster lol and how a lot of hunters were buffed up to the better character’s level of their respective tiers.
Now its reverting to a monster favored meta, but I’ll save my opinion and personal view on the matter until I play more of the mode. I’ve only played one Defend game the last two nights online.

A big factor on what I think makes things so polarizing for the mode is that, there’s barely any cover for the monster to use . So good or bad teams will have drastic results, a good team will destroy a monster regardless meanwhile bad teams would get stomp because they can’t just hunt the monster down.

So yeah… Defend is a wonky mode, I still think Nest is more balance and way more fun for both sides what with how many changes both monsters and hunters has had over the months. @macman please consider putting Nest in Quickplay.


#15

Agree, Nest would be more fun, Defend is just completely unbalanced, no matter how good the hunters are, if the monster is also good, the monster wins. If you get trapped in the dome you can easily kite like you always do in Hunt (most of the time) or kill the trapper. Also i think it’s time to just switch game modes in skirmish, remove arena and defend and add nest and rescue. Being forced to play evacuation just to try the other modes is so annoying.


#16

It used to be hunters favored. Now defend is Kraken and Bob favored. Minions deal to much dmg to generators. Hunters cannot kill them and stage 3 monster (who can constantly run for armor) in the same time. You wont be able to punish monster in time - no way to win.


#17

I’ve unfortunately played quite a few defend games due to it being hard to find games in Hunt. Before this patch you didn’t stand a chance, as goliath anyway, vs a decent team. The minions were killed before they even got to the generators (everyone should be taking abe in defend), you could kill one of the turrets but your armour will easily be gone by then and if you try to run you will get domed. 60 seconds of permanent health damage. Did not stand a chance!

Now seems better but I haven’t come across a strong team yet.

Not that I care about balancing defend if it affects hunt in anyway. Hunt is always the mode to balance for.


#19

We’ve had this discussion, views are simply not as cut and dry as you proclaiming that “most” don’t like it.


#20

Actually the nerf to the turrets is good, that’s not to favour directly the monster, it’s to push the hunters to hunt down the mobster when he flees instead of camping the generator because you know that the monster will come back with full armor, destroy the turrets, and go away again. I think this is a nice change for defend imo.


#21

One good way to balance Defend would be to make it so that the monster can’t damage the turrets or the generator with abilities, but only with melee attacks (kraken would not be able to use snowballs obviously). That way the monster would have to engage the hunters to destroy the turrets and help the minions. I mean monsters like kraken and gorgon can just stay far away and use ranged abilities to destroy everything and avoid any damage easily. Behemoth can even destroy 2 turrets with one single lava bomb when they are close to each other, not fair.

I don’t understand why TRS even reduced the turrets health in the last patch, wtf?