The ultimate solution against Rock Wall relay cheese (5 second delay)


#1

To clarify: I think that a shorter lasting and less wide Rock Wall, which comes with 9.0, already helps a lot against this annoying tactic. But when a single remaining Hunter has sightline on the relay, I think it should always be possible to prevent damage to it.
This includes long reloads and Rock Wall cutting of the sightline, such as in Orbital Drill or Refueling Tower.
If the Monster can only attack the relay if it has not been attacked for 5 seconds, the Rock Wall relay cheese should be gone COMPLETLY, as long as the remaining Hunter plays correctly.
Also Sunny, Bucket and Caira would have a much easier time to prevent all the other Monster from attacking the relay.


#3

Nevermind, didn’t read carefully the thread, too tired, just got out of uni now ._.


#4

If I’m being completely honest, I’d say wait until patch 9.0 is released and we’ve had a chance to try out the changes included before suggesting more. The rockwall relay cheesing might almost be gone with the changes already announced, we have no clue yet. :wink:


#5

Yeah. But. Who knows when that’s gonna be .__.’ Wish it were sooner than Soon™


#6

I’m sorry, but if your team failed to survive, the monster clearly deserves the win. As for when the entire team is failing to protect the relay… Blame your assault for not doing enough damage, or your trapper for letting the monster go in there in the first place.

Yes, the rock wall thing is a cheesy thing to do, and yes it can be annoying. However focussing on a single mechanic that is annoying for hunters, while there’s a dozen annoying mechanics for the monsters to get passed…


#7

Exactly why do you want to change this. What exactly are your reasons because as it stands currently if this is implemented exclusively to end Rock Wall + Relay then I’m vehemently against this change.


#8

Wait…a less wide Rock Wall and it lasts shorter? Not sure if I like that. :S

I might have to go back to a 3-2-2-2 set with Bob than my usual 3-3-2-1 because Rock Wall was just wide enough that I could use it to block hallways if I aimed it well enough. Area Denial is vital to Bob - I hope this change will do more good than harm.


#9

Excuse me ? relay cheese ? are you serious ?
Behemoth has many and well known weaknesses. Rock Wall is one of the abilities to compensate that. And it compensates poorely I would say. We all know wall bugs, some people question is useability at all. And we also know how tough is it to fight Relay-camping hunters - especially for Bob.

And you suggest, that using Rock Wall to finish the match that was virtually won (3 hunters dead, just one luckily managed to escape!) is cheesy ? … so unfair! …for me it is cheesy to shot relay from afar, waiting for “reborn” colleagues to finish monster who sacrificed health defeating hunters.

I am totally against any nerf to Rock Wall and against any additional delay.


#10

Haven’t fully read all the replies yet, but might as well start with this immediately:
To anyone who thinks Rock Walling the relay is a valid playstyle because Bob is underpowered/also has weaknesses, you kid yourself considerably.
Remind me of your opinion next time we play against each other because then I’ll be sure to throw god domes all the time to make up for my character’s “low health” or whatever.

Exploits and weaknesses have nothing to do with one another. Period.

Right. Now to the thread at hand.
I think it’s a good idea, especially when looking back at some recent tournaments. Wraith using Decoy in desperate attempts to cheese the Power Relay because the Hunters were gonna win anyway? Ring any bells?
Unlike most of his more detailed threads, @Sepiablitz isn’t giving you specific values for every gameplay mechanic here in this topic. He’s just saying that the cooldown for attacking the Relay should be much longer.
It’s not fair to immediately assume that this would screw up the balance of Evolve because it’s obviously safe to say that the game would be balanced accordingly.


I think it’s also got something to do with Sunny already firing too slow to properly interrupt a Monster attacking the Relay and god forbid you’re playing Lennox with an AA Gun that will needs to be reloaded soon.


#11

Even so, I find that this change is unnecessary and just frankly a bad change. This would cause an extreme amount of issues with relaying given that with this nerf it heavily impacts all Monsters, effectively multiplying the relay’s typical 40s lifespan and making it impossible for relay wins to ever occur unless the Hunters are a map away.

With TU09 just around the corner, these changes are irrelevant to suggest given that we do not know what’s been done to prevent RWR and to nerf Monsters so badly over a simple concept that can be countered by positioning and hard COUNTERED by three Hunters makes this change unwarranted due to its presented change and frankly ridiculous given its destructive nature to relay combat.


#12

This is your opinion. My opinion is exactly opposite. Using your words “I will keep kidding myself considerably”.
BTW, you realize the more you nerf non-Kraken monsters the more Krakens you will see, right ?


#13

It’s not a nerf, it’s a fix.
Also read my post about taking suggestions out of context, just because I didn’t explicitly mention Bob could use a buff or two in return for removing the Rock Wall exploit doesn’t mean I want to see a character nerfed into the dirt.

While I understand your PoV (I really, really do), I think this just points at an underlying issue of the Power Relay not being the “Monster keeps running away” problem-fixer anymore that it’s supposed to be.

And it’s great that TU9 is coming soon but I’m not going to treat it as the fix-all patch that some make it out to be because I haven’t read any specific mentions on changing the Power Relay.
Just like how you’re careful about suggestions because a patch might drastically change things anyway, I’m instead somewhat more open to these last-minute suggestions because a patch might also not address these mentioned problems at all.
“Just in case”, if you will.

And for what it’s worth, I honestly wouldn’t mind if they kept the Power Relay cooldown the same and approached this another way.
Heh, I welcome any drastic buffs to Lennox’s reload speed though that’s probably not gonna happen.


#14

It’s getting fixed from what i read of 9.0 rockwall will have 3 slabs at all levels.
3 slabs will require less positioning to shoot behemoth off of the relay


#15

3 slabs, if all of them appear :frowning:
Seriously though - was it announced rock wall bugs get fixed ?


#16

Haha yeah i don’t know how they are fixing the holes. Adding a more severe knockback may solve the problem. Not sure havn’t tested all the issues that cause it


#17

That wall would be super easy to around then and kill bob when he trying to down a hunter though?


#18

What do you mean by that exploit ? Using it for shielding relay bash ?

If yes - it is not even clear for me whether interrupting monster relay win by shooting from afar was actually INTENTIONAL or is THIS an exploit. I mean the main purpose - I assume - was to prevent monster from destroying relay while hunters defend it (shoot him). Not to block “deserved” monster win by shooting from 300m away with just a slice of (hunter’s) health left.


#19

So happy their fixing that. I am so tired of people neglecting Behemoth and Elder Kraken as two of the highest DPS monsters in the game. If your using relay cheese to end a match as Behemoth your not only playing Behemoth wrong your playing this game wrong.

@cybersquidarmy That’s the point bro, Monsters shouldn’t be getting cheap downs where the rest of their teammates can’t help them anyways Behemoth barely needs that advantage and to compensate it their making the thing do like 3x damage. No other monster rely s on cheesy tactics like behemoth can to get reliable damage

@trapjaw_breeder It is an exploit AND bad sportsmanship… That is why it is being removed. How do people not understand that?


#20

But that’s having one issue solve the other issue.

I understand your point but in my opinion splitting up as the Hunters and shooting a Monster off the relay from 300m away from different angles is equally stupid and gamebreaking.
I didn’t mention this because there’s only a few maps where this is actually possible to do (without Cabot) in contrast to the higher amount of maps where 1-2 points in Rock Wall is enough to block the Relay off entirely, and in my experience there’s plenty of Bob players who will use Rock Wall to destroy the Power Relay even against Hunters who were more than willing to fight properly.

Shooting the Monster off the relay from a long distance with no intention of actually fighting it, just so you can stall the timer is of course dumb nonsense as well. Neither side should be able to use the Power Relay as a means to end the match with no intention of actually fighting the opposite side.


#21

TRS stated that rockwall was used for area denial to trap one hunter with you using your wall, so no that’s not the point, @10shredder00 can agree.