The reason why you DO NOT PLAY KALA OR CABOT


#1

You need to listen to me folks, because this is getting irritating.

DO. NOT. PLAY. CABOT. OR KALA. I don’t care if they are free to play, set support to lowest priority and save up for Hank or Sunny and don’t play supp until you have them.

I know I’m about to be hit with a lot of political correctness and people saying ‘oh, you just need the right teamcomp, need to communicate etc…’

NO.

I play Monsters and Trappers mostly, sometimes Assault when I feel a thirst for blood and you need to know this: Sustain Supports beat Damage Supports any day or night. Why?

The game of evolve revolves around monster health damage vs strikes. The state of an Evolve game can be measured mostly by ‘how many strikes do the hunters have and how much health does the monster have remaining?’ (also, what stage is that monster). If you have few strikes and the monster lost a lot of health you are doing good, if you have a lot of strikes and the monster is full health, your game is lost for sure.

You might suggest that it’s a ‘pay-off’ situation. With a damage supp you will have a few more strikes, but the monster will be losing a lot of health. Sounds reasonable doesn’t it? High-risk, high reward?

Except not really.

The reason is dome timers. The dome as I’m sure most of you know, has a standard 5 minute timer that decreases when a hunter is down or if the monster takes health damage. Once the dome is down, monsters can escape you fairly consistently, although there are exceptions.

The biggest, most powerful perk of Sustain Supports is that they can keep the Medic alive. This in itself is more powerful than anything else the Damage Supports provide. Medic strikes are huge. Even if I’m bleeding from my armpit as monster if I have 2 strikes on Medic I never count the game out. Having a Sustain Support+ a High Heal Medic (anything but Laz or Rogue Val really), means that the monster MUST focus one of them, because Trapper or Assault will never die as long as they have a clue and there is a Medic and a S.Supp protecting them.

From the monster’s perspective it’s a catch 22. If you go for medic, the S.Supp will shield them, if you go for the Supp, the Medic will heal them.

Of course it’s not unbeatable, but it’s certainly tricky and you need to hit EVERYTHING.

What does this have to do with dome timers you ask?

Well, if the medic goes down because she is not getting enough shields, the dome will lose a lot of time (3 minutes if I’m not wrong?). That’s time you could have spent digging into the monster’s health.

Let’s say a Kala simultaneously (instead of keeping the medic alive) removes the monster’s armour, and the Assault capitalises on this and deals 1-1.5 bar of health dmg quickly, or if thanks to Cabot’s damage boost you arrive at the same place…

DOME COMING DOWN.

And she’s out. Even though you pulled off a good combo, medic got a strike and now the monster is running.

INSTEAD. If you bring a Sustain Supp (either of the Hanks, Sunny, even Bucket), NOBODY will get a strike (which is very important) AND because you didn’t lose any dome time because of them, you can now use that time to do MORE damage to the monster. How much more depends mostly on Trapper and Assault, and on you NOT KITING AWAY FROM THEM (pretty please, learn this).

Do you see where I’m coming from? As monster I always sigh of relief whenever I see a Kala or a Cabot because I know the Medic will be easy pickings, and although I have no stats to back this up, I do claim to be able to walk over those teams fairly consistently.

Instead, something like Hank or Sunny means I’ll be stuck in a dome with a bunch of unkillable ants that are jumping around all day and simply WILL NOT DIE.

Meanwhile Trapper and Assault are having the time of their life and can do absolutely whatever they please.

In the end, I will lose more health, and they get less strikes.

Which is what causes the ‘state of the game’ to favour them and not me.

I hope this helps and we can finally cast these 2 where they belong: Into oblivion, to be forgotten forever.

And please, don’t come at me with your Cabot winrate, I really don’t care. In the current state of the game winrates are meh because of hackers and matchmaking matching you up with literally anyone (I matched up against a monster that didn’t even know how to smell or that he can cut off a harpoon, I added him as friend after the game and he had no idea what he was doing).


#2

I get the kala,but cabot? rlly?
cabot is better than 10% of supports. he is better than himself


#3

Which is weird, because your whole post is predicated on your winrate vs Cabot and Kala. Double standards much? :wink:


#4

Try firing off Cabot’s Damage Amp as the dome drops. At stage 1, you know exactly how much Health the Monster needs to lose for the dome to drop, with the minimum of coordination with the assault you can absolutely tear through his health before he’s even realized he can run away yet.

Kala’s not really useful in that first dome, you don’t want the Monster to have armour when the dome comes down… but in later domes, getting those bursts of damage through the armour can be the difference between winning and losing. the Monster can’t do hit and run attacks without taking some punishment… though i don’t feel she’s a strong choice.


#5

If only you didn’t grab my stuff out of context…are you a journalist by any chance? I said that I can’t take winrates seriously because matchmaking is literally not a thing outside ranked. Add hackers to the picture and winrates are meaningless.


#6

Kala can be infuriating if your medic is on Skype with you and knows how to use the teleport. I play with a damn good Kala and I feel bad when I nip through a portal out of the dome on 10% health and get off some outside heal bursts.


#7

You made a hypothetical opinion about some supports being logically better than others, which is your opinion to hold, and you based it on how easy you have it against offensive supports. But you’re not willing to listen to people that would make a different hypothetical opinion about the supports you think are worse being as good or better than the ones you think are best, which would be their opinion to hold, based on how easy they have it against monsters compared to with defensive supports.

Is that contextually correct enough sir? :wink:


#8

Now you are talking about something completely different. First you talk about winrate which is not an opinion but a statistic and now you are talking about opinion which is based on experience, they are 2 different things.

If you said that Kala or Cabot are strong because xyz that WASN’T winrate I would consider that a fair argument, but anything based off winrates that isn’t coming from TRS itself is invalid for reasons I’ve already explained.


#9

Firstly, sorry, this is annoying me.[quote=“Vajrajina, post:1, topic:98814”]
less strikes.
[/quote]
*fewer

Secondly, I, almost entirely, disagree. And why? [quote=“Vajrajina, post:1, topic:98814”]
oh, you just need the right teamcomp
[/quote]

Don’t say it’s not true. Try Cabot with Laz. You will get your bar of health damage and Laz maybe downs Trapper. Monster either stays and takes a Metric shit ton of damage or leaves and makes no progress.

A good Laz will stay out of the dome and a good Support should be able to stay alive for long enough to make the Monster choose:
Lose health but get Cabot Strike or leave and get nothing.

Cabot is by no means bad.

Kala is useless pre Stage 3. Not worth a pick with the new dome mechanic IMO.


#10

This is an interesting one, although I personally consider the ‘stay out of the dome’ thing to be an exploit more than anything but at the moment it’s part of the game so I have to take it.

So if you build around them they MIGHT work (bear in mind that Cabot is not getting healed while trying to kite the monster). What about pugs?


#11

They’d probably lose with a Hank/Caira comp anyways.


#12

That sounds a bit drastic. That’s like saying pugs never win because they are pugs.


#13

I’ve had teams pull that trick on me… Everytime it happens I find myself saying “You get one of those” and make damn sure to take out all future teleporters =D
On the flip side, I’ve also ambushed players coming through the teleporters, which is hilarious, albeit rare.


#14

Link him some games people.

Except that might not even be the case. The idea with an offensive support is that you force the monster to back off before taking too much damage. Even in the case with a defensive support, your risk of taking down penalties isn’t even necessarily lower.

Yes… The thing with the current dome timers is that they nearly guarantee an outcome, either health damage on the monster’s side or down penalties on the hunter’s side. The way they are designed, means that they neither favor defensive comps by outlasting the monster nor offensive comps for dealing as much damage as they can during a dome.

This of course doesn’t in of itself mean that offensive teams are on par with defensive teams, because it doesn’t even take into account how much damage is being added by taking an offensive support over a defensive support, nor how much defense is added by a defensive support over an offensive one.

Yep, and what an offensive support does is try to make you pay for it. If they are lucky, they can force you away with the threat of damage before you get a down penalty. Because if you don’t have a down penalty by the time they get into your health, then it certainly isn’t a good idea to spend more time trying to down the medic, unless you are about to down her anyways. Defensive teams try to delay until they get enough health damage in, and often get a down penalty despite these efforts, and an offensive team rushes to the point where they get health damage in, and hope they don’t take too much damage before then.

Cabot is very capable of dealing damage while the monster runs away and can massively decrease the amount of time the monster has to down someone while in a dome.

That isn’t necessarily true. Personally, in my pub stomping experience, I can also get down penalties against sunny and hank. Not only that, but consistently. In every dome. There is a reason why people say that cabot can be good when you are playing with a good team.

Yes I do. You are a monster player who has seen many bad cabot/kala teams, and I would presume sometimes a hunter player who has experienced many bad cabot/kala teams. But I would strongly suggest that you either watch high end gameplay to see that yes, hunter teams that use an offensive support can get a lot of work done, or fight against a very coordinated team yourself and see how tough it can be trade effectively against a cabot team.


#15

Well personally I have an 80%+ winrate as every monster so I have a hard time seeing pubs as effective teams. It feels like I’m going through the motions every time I enter the hunt que.


#16

Well it all comes down to weather or not the ‘stay alive’ team can do it’s job. If you don’t get a person downed with the sustain team you WILL get a better trade than what a dmg team can possibly get with the medic going down. They might ‘make me pay’ for the medic strike, but in the next dome they will have less time to make me pay, and in the third dome I’ll blow your medic up immediately then walk over the rest of the team.

Of course the BEST trade is when you have a damage supp yet you have nobody going down, but I would call that very optimistic.


#17

What I’m trying to say is that A: Offensive teams can avoid down penalties too, you treat them like they are givens, and B: That the defensive team isn’t as likely to avoid down penalties as you are suggesting. The only way the monster gets out of the dome with a favorable trade (or spending 5 minutes of his limited time) is if he gets enough down penalties to offset any health damage he may or may not have taken, so he will be working hard to make that happen as long as he can.

I will tell you that while yes, the majority of players have difficulties in making offensive comps work, that the best players when working together, can make them work.


#18

I’m going to have to agree with this dude. It’s just so much safer to have a defensive support, and if the dome comes down after a certain amount of damage/downs, then going offensive only really benefits you if the monster stays to fight or at relay fight.

Thank God Bucket is now viable because of his mechanised field, but Kala especially just doesn’t hold up as well, and although Cabot can work well at high level play, in PuG’s, you’re so much more likely to win without either of them (imo)


#19

A damage comp is a composition that is set to come alive in the final third of the match, not the first.

The defensive comp requires the blocking of the strikes in order to remain effective later when the monsters power output dwarfs what can be dealt with shield and heals even at the best of times.

The offensive comp is about sustained pressure as much as it is about putting the damage in. Yes the dome might go down quicker, but you can deal your damage in a faster time and this can also save you strikes among a team that knows what they’re doing. If it takes a minute to break through armour and deal damage as a defensive comp, it might only be 40 seconds or even less with an offensive one. The offensive comp is also better set to deal chip damage at the end of the dome’s life too.

But even if the offensive comp takes strikes, it doesn’t matter because where the hunters know what they are doing they get most of the time at stage 3 that a defensive comp would have anyway, and are more able to deal damage.

From my experience, annecdotal as it is, I find that defensive comps tend to spend a lot of time not really doing damage and I will eventually down someone and am able to flee without really taking much real health damage. Against offensive comps I will take more damage, in a shorter space of time, and still have that strike. From my perspective if in both situations the hunters have gained a strike, but one set have put me under more pressure by taking more of my health (and in Kala’s case, using good teleport management to never really leave me alone while fleeing post-dome) then it’s pretty clear which one has been more effective.

Of course the defensive comp could just be happy that it takes more time to get that strike, and are playing the long game of trying to put me under pressure at the end of the match with time constraints…though I feel this is a fools game since the timer being able to be stopped means that pressure is off as soon as I want to fight, and if I’ve got a large health pool still I’m happy to do it.

Now, some defense comps do much better and never do get that strike, or they manage to also put in great damage, and bully to them but some offense comps also manage to do magical things and use the terrain and the shields and other mitigation/CC available to avoid strikes!

I think both strategies are viable, but I think that the offensive comp meta is the one that works the best right now as it’s the one that pushes monsters to tilt more often, and it’s the one that means hunters can actually still go toe to toe with a proper stage 3 monster…IMO almost no defensive comp can out play a stage 3 monster carrying a damage or CDR wildlife buff in to that relay fight.

Edit: I’ve said it elsewhere, but I wonder if part of the problem people are having is that the meta of the game has reversed for offensive hunters. It used to be they were taken to do early damage and ruin the monster before it could get up to speed. Now it’s not about that, it’s about remaining competitive at all stages, but do some hunters that take those early strikes with an offensive comp give up because they think that’s the end? Even though they have tools that can do serious damage to a monster that is no longer trying to hide (because he’s so freaking big at stage 3)?


#20

Well TRS has said recently that Cabot’s got a 70% win ration in premade games, so…Yeah.

Maybe you’re just wrong?

Cabot basically gives you a very short timer on how long you can stay in a fight. If you overstay your welcome, even by a tiny bit, he’ll rip into you extremely hard.

Kala’s Armor Reducer is much more situational now but teleport pads are still very good defence with a coordinated team.

Tl;dr- Fight better hunters.

Kala’s one of my main characters and she is good if you can use her, and as for Cabot, the developer balance team, which consists of very skilled players like Insane521/etc, have said that Cabot’s a real lad. So. :slight_smile: