The problem with this game


#1

First off, I have to say that evolve is one of my favorite games of all time. However that is slowly dying…

Evolve is a 1 v 4 gametype, this means that 4 members have to work together and coordinate as a team at a high level to take down a monster. This is why the game fails.
It relies on teamwork, and dedicated teams.

Pubbing: this is a nightmare for a game like evolve, a majority of the people going in alone, from my experience are just experiencing the game, they have no sense of a team and dont feel motivated to do their job. When people get frustrated with their ditsiness these individuals succumb to insulting rather than actually working together.

Why pubbing is horrible for this game? TRS has implemented countless nerfs/buffs to allow 4 sporadic uncoordinated angry individuals with no understanding of how to do their assigned jobs to be relevantly competitive against a completely competent monster, this is exactly what happened to games like halo as well, the gameplay and level of competition was and has been nerfed so far that a monster can become completely harmles to a fully competent hunter team, and as a monster that is infuriating. The hunters have a severe advantage in the new meta and it should not be so…

Furthermore there has to be a better more organized way for fixing gameplay imbalances rather than with random patches with very few details of how something may be affected.

I haven’t agreed with every patch and I think a lot of lower skilled players have much more say than they should, the evolve forums bring me to a horrid image of a Bernie Sanders rally and as someone who sees things differently than the ones that cry for a nerf everytime they lose it is very frustrating and I am losing interest in staying around for the death of this game.

Somehow team play needs to be encouraged because right now random pubbing is killing this game. Or it won’t grow out of its faulty past.


#2

So you’re saying the problem with Evolve is that it is a team based game… okay… well what about:

  • Left 4 Dead

  • Team Fortress 2

  • Overwatch

  • The Call of Duty Franchise

  • SMITE

  • Dota

  • League of Legends

and oh so many countless more.


Obviously L4D is the closest comparison but you do realize that making this statement is like saying is like saying the it’s primary gameplay and marketing element; is the reason this game does poorly.

And for the record; it’s not doing poorly at all.


#3

You must have not read why I said that, pubbing, balancing the game for individuals who dont play with a team or as a team in general, causes team play to be unbalanced. Please reread, and fyi if it was doing so well it wouldn’t have had a 106 player base before going free in a desperate attempt to consolidate it’s failures. My point still stands.


#4

I would also like to point out that all the games you have listed have managed to be long term viable and popular through long standing success which evolve has not seen. None of which have has to tackle the issues of a team vs an individual. They are team vs team games with similar abilities and characters on both sides which levels the playing field. Evolve on the other hand has 2 vastly different oppositions in the form of a very powerful monster and 4 physically inferior humans out smarting and hunting down the beast. I have been a founder on both console and pc and am immensely motivated to see Evolve succeed. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing take it somewhere else.


#5

Please point out the buffs and nerfs in question then because they’ve buffed solo queues and parties up to three. They’ve left premades virtually alone despite the fact that they arguably need a nerf in premades.

As it stands it just sounds like you’re complaining that they’re trying to make the game more fun for pubs.

You see; this started nice with a please and quickly went downhill when you attacked my statement. Falsely might I add. I speak of the current state of the game and not of the previous state therefore that attempt to refute my claim is invalid.

Use current statistics to refute current claims; outdated evidence will not refute current claims.

Unnecessary aggression.


#6

The problem is that if you go the way of the inverse - balancing based upon competitive results, etc. - that’s not really, uh, catering to the masses of players on the game. The competitive scene of Evolve is, like, what? Maybe 50 people or something? It’s the same few teams usually, etc… to balance a game that averages 5-10k players at a time for 50 people is just insanity, really. Additionally, to suggest that trying to increase the fun factor of pubs is what’s driving people away? That doesn’t make logical sense, though. Maybe some monsters would be angry, but monsters generally can pubstomp with ease against noobs anyway.


#7

I believe they need to make competitve evolve more interesting to the masses. Csgo has done it, halo has done it, league has, all these games rely on the fact that being good at the game and seeking to improve is desirable, I personally believe the way evolve plays best is hardcore competitive team play, so it is my opinion that they aren’t moving the game in the right direction, the only reason they have seen recent success is from the change to f2p but if this game does not find a niche for players to identify with the I fear the player base will once again plummet.


#8

Idk how to respond to you, you don’t seem to understand my post. You also stated that you may agree that monsters have a disadvantage against premade teams which is my entire point and I explained that I believe the problem stems from the misguided focus on making pubs easier when the game mechanics are there and may have been balanced, the real issue is the players aren’t utilizing them. When you nerf something to accomodate a lack of knowledge and understanding of how to play the game you arent balancing it, your essentially breaking the long term meta and gameplay which ultimately will drive players away when they become good enough at the game to realize that there are inherent flaws in the mechanics simply to allow poor gameplay to reward players that have no idea what they are doing. Every game has a learning curve, I am not sure why many in this community don’t understand that. Like I said, if you are here just to refute and argue please don’t comment.


#9

No. He’s right. In all those games you mentioned, they all can rely on a carry. Even if the team is bad, if there is one or two members who are pros, you still have a shot in winning. In evolve, this is less likely to happen…
L4D, its mostly co-op vs AI, except vs mode. And even then, team vs team.
Everything else, teamwork is key. It helps to win. But is it a necessary factor to win? No, not really.

Additionally, they are symmetrical teams each relying on each other to fight a team that also relies on each other. Who wins is who is better at working together.
But in Evolve, the hunters are a team that needs to work together to fight a monster who is relying on nothing but his own individual skill. If the monster fails, its because he sucked. If the hunters win, that means at least one person in the team failed.


#10

Again; you fail to understand that you’re complaining that the game is balancing around pubs making premades harder to balance around. However you seem to have failed to notice my statement:

What changes have they made that have made premades stronger? They’ve buffed solo queuers. That’s it. Premades remain the same strength.


#11

Sorry this is just not my experience at all. I have been pubbing for many hours these past few nights. Even when my pub team has been ‘ok’, they are still no match at all for a competent monster. In your average random pub team there is still just enough unco-ordination, miscommunication and lack of cohesiveness to allow any half decent monster to wreck the team in short order.

I also pub in a team of 3 and you would be amazed how the randomness of even the 4th public slot can wreck a game that is going well.

If 4 sporadic uncoordinated angry (wut? Lol) individuals with no idea how to play their roles arent getting wrecked in minutes by the monster, then they are up against a terrible monster. I have seen quite a few terrible monsters these past few nights.

My experience is so different, so opposite to yours and I disagree so strongly that I had to say something.


#12

The game is balanced for high level play, with some buffs for solo queue players to compensate for the reduced level of teamwork and communication.

This isn’t balancing for the masses, it’s balancing for teamwork and then adding some buffs that help bridge that gap.


#13

If you are playing with veterans, it’s your job to be good. If you’re playing with youngsters and you want the game not to die, type some advice for them. You weren’t that good on your first 50 hours of the game, either. Guaranteed. Go to the forums and help. I have done that with at least 20 people so far.

Pubbing is not killing this game. Evolve has a rather steep learning curve, one most FPS and team based games do NOT share. If you play, you have to accept the fact that if one fails to carry out their duty, you lose as well. A team is a team is a team is a team.


#14

"coordinate as a Team at high level to take down a monster. This is why the game fails."
League of Legends?? Dota ???


#15

Those would be games where you coordinate as a team to take down a team, not a “monster” or solo player. Team work is necessary on both sides in those games, since there is no one other than the monster on the monster’s team in evolve, team work isn’t an issue for him.


#16

Other opinions probably vary. I’m not saying yours is wrong, but there are definitely people that see Evolve as more casual. There are also definitely competitive and non-competitive gamers that don’t think Evolve’s framework of 4v1 is possible to do well competitively. But, on launch, 2K really pushed hard on the e-sports angle, and I think the game as a whole suffered from it as a result. I don’t think the competitive scene should be diminished or extinguished, but I also don’t think balance changes for the entire game based upon that small fraction of the playerbase is wise at all.

Just for some perspective, the oft-repeated platitude, “hunters almost always win in high-level competitive play” is spread around like wildfire in the community. Consider the size of that sample though - like 50 people - and the number of monsters who are getting defeated (like, maybe less than 10) and the number of hunter teams that are almost always winning and have thousands of hours amassed in the game. That’s a REALLY small sample that’s also wildly different from the mass population of players who have somewhere between 100-500 hours, I’d imagine (I’d imagine the mean is somewhere around 200-250 hours?) In stats, the teams like DDs and nDG are called outliers because they’re far away from the norm/mean. If you start treating the outliers like they’re your mean, and change the game around what they’re doing, the ENTIRE rest of the population gets shafted. In other words, just because Source_TV (a great monster no doubt) loses to a team of really, really coordinated hunters a lot doesn’t necessarily mean that the entire game is off-kilter, does it? And if you really say it does, how can you be so sure with such a small sample?

Modifying the entire game around “competitive” play just doesn’t make anyyyyyy sense. It shouldn’t be eliminated. It shouldn’t be shafted. But the entire game shouldn’t be changed around it, either.


#17

There’s no such thing as balancing ‘for’ anyone. There’s just balance and imbalance.


#18

In theory, sure. In practical terms, you have wildly different populations that are impacted by any changes you make - achieving perfect balance is probably impossible.


#19

The game was, is and will always be in the favors of hunters, why ? Because its 4v1, it has to be like this.

Monster is alone and doesn’t have to rely on everyone else than himself. 4 hunters that have to cooperate will always do mistakes as 4 people can’t be a same entity so they can’t coordinate 100% perfectly. If they play perfect, they HAVE to win for this simple reason.

4 people playing together will allow more mistakes than 1 guy alone. That’s why pubs get stomped.

Hunters are handicaped because of the assymetrical nature of the game. If monster and hunters play 100% perfect, hunters win. Its simple. And its how it should be.


#20

Honestly, its really this simple.

You have 2 player bases.

Hunters and Monsters

Hunters outweigh the monsters 4-1 in the player base

Hunters will always have the ability to talk.

Monsters do not…

The monster player base and the hunter database is two largely different psychology types.

now just imagine trying to balance for 4 different mind sets.
Team Mindset
Solo Hunter Mindset
Monster Solo mindset
Monster Ranked Mindset

and thats just the start of the balancing nightmare TRS made for themselves.

(thats why my personal belief is that everything is geared on sliders for adjustments)