The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!]


#1

Who’s seen it? What did you think? For one I loved it. Lots of shamalayn plot twists, battles, and butt clenching moments.

I especially loved the Rey and Kylo fight against Snokes guards and Luke’s astral projection of himself. So fucking cool.


#2

I thought that part was super lame. Ren’s last kill was cool though.


#3

I loved their fighting together, it felt like something entirely fresh.

I thought the movie itself was good, something about it bugged me but I can’t put my finger on it. Part of me thinks that its that it didn’t feel like it had a traditional three-act structure (though it did), part of me thinks that it’s because it all feels too strange that we’ve gone back to there being an “empire” and almost no republic any more, part of me thinks that it’s because the film felt like it had two different directions it was pulling in that I’d superficially recognise as studio vs director in a way that doesn’t usually manifest on screen. I imagine it’s some combination of all three.

On that last point, the film was beautiful and clearly had a vision and cinematic direction that differed from JJ’s first effort, it makes me wonder if they revised a bunch of stuff storywise after the success of force awakens because they had the freedom of that success. But it also felt silly, and pulling towards formulaic. That it wasn’t formulaic, that it was probably one of the least formulaic of the star wars franchise in a lot of ways, is why I feel that there was this pull. It’s like the director and the creative team were given a huge amount of freedom but had specific push backs at various point.

I thought the social commentary was brilliant, if not completely on the nose at points, but if sci-fi isn’t there to just go “Well duh, this is reality” then I don’t know what it’s for.

The whole lightspeed into Snoke’s ship thing was fucking cool

And most importantly Kylo Ren has become the deepest and most interesting character that the official Star Wars universe has introduced. He is such a tragic character and you can just see all of this turmoil and need and the effects and consequences of those he looks up to and his peers letting him down or abusing him… it’s fantastic to see a seemingly psychopathic and malicious bad guy being truly rooted in something so human and real. I don’t know what they have planned for him, but in a dark way I hope that it isn’t redemption. It’s Disney so I feel it will go that way, but I kind of want this to be a lesson to the audience. Treat people like shit, abuse them, make them distrust you, let others manipulate and coerce them… and you end up with a monster, and there isn’t necessarily a way to bring them back from that. Sometimes a portion of society makes a horrible person and sometimes that mistake isn’t able to be rectified soon enough.

At least I hope that’s where they go, because I think it’d be a poignant and intelligent route for the character, truly tragic due to the way they’re unveiling his story.

The film had style and character progression locked down tight, and for a blockbuster sci-fi film you can’t ask for much more than that. It is a shame, however, that Phasma seems to have been brought back only to be largely pointless. I don’t get her inclusion in this film except to act as a recognisable authority figure upon which for Finn to recognise his allegiances for a greater good instead of just himself and those he knows.


#4

That part was beautiful! Everybody in the audience was in a complete state of awe.


#5

I haven’t seen the film yet but plan on it…but the main reason I could care less about spoiling the film for myself by reading this thread is because of Kylo Ren…because I thought his character was one of the weakest I’ve ever seen, and basically made me not care at all for where the Star Wars movies are going right now…and made me yearn for Darth Maul to have been a lasting evil villain instead getting this man-boy sniveling teenager. I really want to see Phasma’s character more, and I could basically drop the rest.

So, I am now interested in how this film has made him change so much compared to the last one. Honestly I feel like Anikin’s story was very rich overall and I couldn’t possibly compare Anikin to Kylo. Actually the main characters I cared most about in the last film were Maz, BB8, Leia, and Chewbacca. The rest I could take or leave. They just didn’t feel deep enough. Rey…bleh. Finn…wow, I prefered Jar Jar Binks, need I say more?


#6

You may well still not like him, because they aren’t painting him down a classic evil villain route. For me he has more depth in 2 films over two years than Anakin had over 6 films and 30(?) years.

But if you want a Vader or Darth maul like cool big bad then I think you’ll still be disappointed, this series/trilogy seems to be about the mistakes of those who had the opportunity to not repeat the mistakes of their parents, and the new generation trying to work out what their purpose is in this universe. It’s sloppy and indecisive because our new young characters are not coming from a position of black and white certainty, and have a generation of parents and elders who were more focused on themselves than the future.

This film couldn’t make it more obvious that it is critiquing Gen X and the effect it had had on millennials, that it is critiquing a generation screwing everything for personal profit even if it means the worst off getting hurt again and again.


#7

Are you saying that the basis for the weak characters in the former film was due to societal commentary, trying to show the audience that the mistakes of our elders lead to continual downfall? The problem is millennials don’t want to face their own responsibilities anymore. I felt the ending of Episode 6 was not just about the individuals but the future also. Why would the resistance happen if not to change the future for future generations? There’s no reason to stick your neck out and die if not to make the future generations have a better life. That’s the basis for most wars, is it not? I personally think that people as individuals need to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps and stop blaming others for their issues, but the often sissy-fied hand-held society of today isn’t making for a strong, prosperous future. But I digress, this is about the film, not society as a whole (I hope). I go to the theater to be entertained, and for me that requires some decent character-building to suck me into the story. I’m just saying these characters haven’t wowed me before and I am hoping they move me to be wowed somehow now and redeem themselves…so that does interest me.


#8

Jar jar over Finn? Blasphemy!


#9

Thought it was a little crap how Snoke died. Now I feel like there is no really powerful super villan to look up to. Kylo after him taking off his mask in the first movie kind of ruined him being scary for me. Hopefully they pull something else out in the future.


#10

I know the thread has denoted spoilers, but I’m diving headfirst into a major one so extra spoiler warning and I’m gonna spoiler tag it.

I loved it. Mostly. I was a bit upset they y’know… killed off Luke. Right after motivating him properly to help. I understand that he’ll probably be back as a force ghost but i would’ve preferred having him as a redeemed teacher going forward.

Also… if they’re sticking with that as the answer to “who were Rey’s parents” that annoys the crap out of me.


#11

Ok, that might’ve been a bit much but, to be fair, Jar Jar always did what he thought was best, even if he was a colossal screw up. At least he wasn’t a…


#12

No… I’m saying I didn’t see weak characters. I understand some people did.


#13

Now I have a bit more time…

I think the new films kind of pick this up really well. Sure, there’s no denying that there has to be an element of “change the world/galaxy for the better” when you do these things, but it doesn’t actually mean that your primary focus is on the future generations. At the end of the day you’re trying to stop an injustice now, you’re trying to destroy tyranny now. You’re kind of doing that for future generations, sure… but you’re also doing it for yourself, because you believe that the current status quo is wrong and that it’s so wrong you need to change it.

But not everyone cares. Plenty of people are happy to extricate themselves from the real effects of this struggle through privilege, power or wealth. And when the change has been achieved the question is what is being done to ensure that the past is not repeated. Clearly the generation of the Skywalker twins failed in the most important task of all which is not only to change the way the Galaxy works, but ensure that it keeps working for everyone enough that no-one gets sucked in to old ways.

To directly compare that to our current day reality we have actual fascists going around in Western Europe being given the time of day to build their platform, and they do this off of the back of the consequences of multiple wars since World War 1 and multiple governments not making the changes needed to stop the causes of fascism from being stoked.

In this film they talk repeatedly about Hope, they talk about how you don’t need to see the sun to know it’s there, you just need to know it’s there when it’s not in view. The same goes on the flip-reverse for “evil”, you don’t need to directly witness it for it to exist, and for our modern society to go around pretending that because we don’t experience things, that they aren’t real issues… it’s the bedrock of creating the sparks that ignite fascism and division. And so in the film we see the same, the First Order rising from the ashes of a seemingly defeated empire, for whatever reason believing that the Empire was in the right and that there is a reason for them to exist.

They didn’t do this because the Republic clearly didn’t ensure that the subsequent 30-40 years were spent making sure that those that were previously supported by the empire were taken in and supported by the republic, or that this newly refound democratic way of running the galaxy stopped slavery or poverty. We don’t see enough of the republic to understand what the way of the galaxy is, but we see in The Last Jedi parallels with our own world, and that the lives of the wealthy and the downtrodden are largely unchanged by the destruction of the “metropolitan” republic government’s planet (or the changing of regime in our real life).

Adam Driver gave an interview before the film screened where he said the thing that’s most inline with how The Last Jedi feels…and that’s that he doesn’t see Kylo Ren as an evil character, he doesn’t see him as a character that is just trying to be bad. He sees Kylo Ren as someone who thinks he’s right, and that his “right” is different from Rey or Leia’s “right”. This First Order is doing to some extend what the rebels did in episodes 4-6, they are coming in and correcting what they perceive to be wrong. While Snoke may be perhaps truly evil, Kylo Ren is more akin to a younger Anakin that believes that there is a way to make everything better for everyone but not in a way that our western society would generally agree is fair, humane or acceptable.

And so the realities of this universe, as with our world, is that a whole generation… two technically… have done what they thought is right, what they thought will protect the future, but they haven’t gone far enough while at the same time enjoying the fruits of their labour for themselves. They’ve left the new generation to solve the problems that their own generations decided not to, and left it too late for this new generation to be able to do so in any way that isn’t going to cause great conflict and hurt, all while the older generations are still ultimately in power and making the big decisions.


#14

Haven’t seen it myself self, but my brother said it was pure crap and walked out half-way through


#15

I’ve heard that people have done this. I haven’t heard a solid reason why they felt this strongly.


#16

Same, I thought it was brilliant. People get too hung up on the OT and don’t want to deviate from it. But when they don’t deviate enough, they call it a rehash.


#17

I’ve only ever walked out of one film…I can’t imagine people walking out of a Star Wars movie. No matter what I am sure the movie is going to be decent. Even though I feel the character development was weak in Episode 7, it’s still worth watching, in my opinion, as part of the cannon, same as the new film. How terrible can it be?


#18

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t see that with these films. Each side obviously thinks that they are in the right, but there has to be some point where you go, hey, this is probably wrong…like when Kylo destroyed whole planets.

Anikin’s story so far was far more developed than Kylo’s…but that’s unfair because we still need to see Kylo in 2 more films, and I am hoping to see more in Episode 8, but as it stands at the moment (I haven’t seen 8 but will next weekend) Anikin we related with, at least up until he killed Mace Windu, and certainly not after he killed the younglings in the Jedi Temple. He accepted doing things he knew were evil because he thought he was in the right, but deep down he knew it to be wrong. There was a lot of conflict there. With Kylo we saw his conflict with killing Han, but it wasn’t set up for us well enough for that conflict, I feel, to be believable or even something we could side with. When Anikin killed the sand people that took his mother I think we all pretty much said yeah, we can relate to that even if we don’t like it.

The Star Wars universe is a lot bigger than our own society and world. You’re talking a republic that spans multiple worlds, and multiple societies that need to be changed. That’s practically an impossible task. We can’t even do that between countries here in our own world. I can’t call the former generation lazy, as it takes multiple generations to really solidify change. The former generation set the groundwork, but newer gens have to build on that. The seeds of evil can’t all be stomped out and people will always seek for their own personal gains…Kylo is after his own gain. He wants to be the greatest much like Anikin wanted to be…but we saw Anikin wanting to bring about democracy through totalitarian rule, peace through total subservience to the government. What does Kylo want? We really don’t know, since he seems more out for himself than even Anikin was. If anything he feels too one dimensional.

I disagree that the film is meant to be social commentary. I just see weak character development. I feel that really, the reason these new films are being put out is because we want them to since we love the franchise and don’t want it to go away, we are willing to pay for them and will go to see every one no matter what, and somebody has to make some story up in order to do so, so they crafted this new depressing story-line as an excuse to make more films and get more box office profits. It’s built on some weak threads. There can still be further development in future films to flesh episode 7 out of course but looking at the movie in and of itself…oof, missed the mark for me. Remains to be seen how I will feel after seeing 8.


#19

I’d also like to say that I’m happy that they’re exploring the non-hereditary side of the Force.

The Skywalkers are done and over with, time to usher in new blood.


#20

My favorite parts.

Light speed kamikaze (Laura Dern in general, amazing actress), most all Kylo scenes (am I the only person that really appreciates this character?), THE MOVIE SHOWING INSTEAD OF TELLING EXPOSITION! Thank you movie for not assuming my stupidity.