TGL is really good!


#1

Been loving the TGL comp. I don’t watch live because i am usually at work, I watch the past broadcast on their stream. I also support the comp with a little cash every month too. Keep up the good work guys!!!

http://www.twitch.tv/thegentlemensleague/v/27000661


#2

http://www.twitch.tv/thegentlemensleague/v/27000661

FTFY. Discourse tries to make a preview pic of twitch links, and they never work. Just put a space before you post the link.


#3

TGL is interesting- But my EXACT concern has proven to be true.

Hunters ban kraken.
Monster bans Val.
Monster bans Sunny.

Etc.

But I digress- Some diversity is so much better than NO diversity like we see in ESL.


#4

Exactly. ESL is just a bunch of OP setups used over and over again. Atleast TGL brings some diversity.


#5

Yup, bans are always the same.


#6

moiser
Yup, bans are always the same.

I think the bans depends on the players involved. I’m sure if Moiser was on, they would ban Ciara! If Nimp was on Monster, they would definitely ban Wraith! There is more of a choice on how you would like the game to play out! Maps also dictate to an extent on what characters would be best to ban.

I think TR have a great insight on what characters are thought of as OP too, as these would be banned the most. Val, Torvald and Sunny?

There was also a good mixture of Monster and hunters wins this week which could mean that the teams are starting to learn how to use the bans more effectively? I would love to see this kind of system in the Hunt 2.0 games so you can ban the characters you hate. perhaps a choice of Map would be good too?

Personally i think if hunters ban Goliath (say legendary was playing), then it should be both variants. Same with Marco. Saying that though, i think the Val variant is so different these could be left as two separate characters…?


#7

What else would they really ban, though? Kraken is the strongest in-combat monster, easy choice there. Val, strongest Medic, and Sunny, best defensive Support; on top of that you’re also disabling the god chasecomp. Literally no reason not to ban those exact characters.


#8

Problem with stuff like this-

is teams arent limited to 5 players. Ban caira? No worries, Medic #2 will come in and play Val. Goliath is banned because legendary is there? Haha sweet- Now the backup monster is free to play kraken.

Of course there will ALWAYS be exceptions to the rule- but geeeenerally.

Ban kraken.
Ban Val.
Ban Sunny.

Assault/trapper seem to be varied a bit more, but that tends to be because these classes are smidge more well rounded (Unless val is there, then you generally want a non-stasis trapper to double up on CC), especially with the assault.

Youre totally right. Which is why, while I admit TGL is a step in the RIGHT direction, its not “ideal”, to ME (and purely me), from a “spectators stand point”.

If i had MY way (emphasizing again, this is PURELY my personal opinion lol)? Id make it so during your rounds, each team would be incapable of using the same character twice per match, and have purely blind picks. What you use, and when you use it, would be a strategical decision, and gives you the chance to play mind games with your opponents. I think a lot of people fizzled out on ESL because of how repetitive it was. if you want the competitive scene for evolve to grow, it HAS to appeal to the spectators- And no one wants to watch the same thing over, and over, and over again. So if you ask me, force the diversity. I promise you the best teams would still win.


#9

its always kraken val sunny. except if you are playing against dean.

oh and dean is abnning slim for some reason.

noones gonne ban wraith now.`


#10

Personally I think the only thing that needs fixing is the balance.

If TRS tackles that, any team can take any monster and any hunters (within reason, taking a comp with no synergy like SlimCket is still a bad idea) and the game works out.

Of course I highly doubt TRS will ever get that together, so yes, it’s up to the conp admins.


#11

Can you see how your thinking it through though, ban this character and then use that character. Ban Goliath and use the back up monster player that may not be as good, unless they use him on this map… etc.

You don’t think this is better than just not bothering with bans at all and having Kracken Vrs Val, Sunny, Torvald and Jack ALL the time??? Every time TR changes the balance of characters, the bans have to be thought out more and more? Got to be good for the viewers (and Casters)?


#12

TOTALLY agree with you 110%.

But I think the sad reality is this game, being asymmetrical, will NEVER be balanced- And always need tweaks. And EVERY “current build” of the game will have a) the strongest monster, and b), the current “meta comp”.

Gonna go ahead and quote myself here:

But like I said, my only real concern about TGL is that well see a similar thing with ESL, and that is stagnation. I fully believe that to make the competitive scene thrive, you need diversity- No one wants to see the same thing over and over and over again. On one hand this includes picked characters, but on another- This can arguably include bans. For the time being, youll basically never see (except in rare cases), kraken/val/sunny comps match ups. There are a couple of trappers youll almost never see- And i strongly wager the bans on assaults will largely bounce between 1 or 2 (Id love to get some information on ban rates, i wont be surprised if assaults like torvald are up there). it may be a different type of stagnation, but its still just that. I may not want to ALWAYS see kraken, or val, or sunny, but i want to see them more than never too lol.

Dont get me wrong though, I applaud TGL for the creativity in their ruleset overall. Its no secret that the general balance of the game is hunter favored overall with specific comps, and TGL does a great job at diminishing that power and helping monsters be much more competitive finally.


#13

Someone mentioned perhaps we should see some kind of random hunter/monster pick by the game? This would see all kinds of combos which could be interesting, but in some circumstances wouldn’t the random pick determine the winner even before the game is played?

Going further there could be a list of a few different combos that the teams could agree on that could be randomly picked, including what monster they go up against and what map is used??? Perhaps even with prechosen perks so all is as balanced as possible? Then they play whatever combo is chosen by computer, or by calling out a letter or number and having the caster opening an envelope to see the combo - like a TV show!

Shame we don’t have new maps appearing more often? Wish we could make our own maps, that would be a great new feature! I’m sure some could be used as competition maps, perhaps making our own little games like capture the flags etc. Going off topic now…


#14

rnd hunter picks?

the tgl rules are monster favored enought oO


#15

Fav2m
rnd hunter picks?

the tgl rules are monster favored enought oO

That would go for monster too, sorry for confusion.


#16

Possibly- But theres some comps that are just flat out bad, bad, and BAD, compared to even the “weakest” monster.

While evolve may arguably be hunter favored over all, its not hunter favored to the degree that completely utter random comps can mesh well enough to handle even the worst monsters. The games only “hunter favored” overall because of some very specific hunter comps that just mesh particularly well- And even then some context is required. Takes the last tourney in Poland for example. If you exclude the hunter games by NjP, monsters had an overall 50% win rate. They were actually ONE game over 50% under that context. It might seem silly to ignore NjPs hunter games, but i cant help but feel its important to point out how skilled and dedicated these guys are. This team literally throws off the “Average” when they compete. TPA was pretty damn good as well for this. And while yes, we only saw kraken and wraith (arguably the strongest monsters in the game overall atm), emphasizing again- These were against the “Strongest” meta comps.

Even these meta comps only arguably edge out monsters like goliath- Who can pull out a victory if the hunters make 1 reasonable mistake.

TGL allows the monster to shake up specific metas, but allowing the hunters to still have some capability to pick their own characters evens it out a bit. Not letting them have ANY say in what they got, oi- Itd be a damn mess.

For me, id much rather see tams have the ability to choose what they want to use, and when. Itd bring a level of strategy, risk, reward, and capacity to play mind games with your opponent. Im all down for forcing diversity, but I also feel the teams (both monster and hunter) need to be allowed SOME capacity to have pre-determined strategy for their picks/comps/teams/etc. Not something youd get with purely random picks. Itd be amusing, but itd be pretty chaotic too. Give me diversity AND careful strategy :smiley:


#17

Sunny is an exceptionally strong hero, I think once she gets tuned down more in line with hank we’ll start seeing some more diverse hunter compositions. The same thing goes for Torvald.

I also strongly believe that the majority of competitive Evolve scene teams are VERY slow to adapt. If teams read patch notes more they would understand the direction of what is going to be strong in the meta.

Also teams still need to learn how to draft.


#18

Any competitive game with multiple heroes is too hard to balance by allowing all heroes through. The draft systems in LoL and DOTA allow the players to at least ban what’s too strong to play against. There will always be a combination of heroes that are too strong and why would you pick anything else if you’re playing competitively?

The strategy comes in forming a team composition based on what your opponent denies you. Just like in any battle, you have to improvise on the spot and make the best out of the situation.

Teams should have predetermined strategies for compositions that they are playing, the fact that teams go in to these battles with no game plan or no understanding of how multiple compositions work is because they are too comfortable with defensive heroes, they haven’t learned to play the game any other way.


#19

Thanks for the props! We are having a great time with it and KaiserTim, Stealthshampoo, Seeds, and Insane521 have been doing an awesome job with it!

I really don’t understand the Kraken ban, I think it’s more reflexive than anything. The sunny ban I do understand though, she is kind of a butt :smile:


#20

I agree, they are awesome and are really a big part of the show!

There was only one Kracken on Saturday, and it lost!