Telemetry and Game Balance 8.1.0


#1

A new patch cycle, a new telemetry thread!
As always thanks to @MacMan and all the other Developers who provide us with new data. Now that we have @citizenphnix and @mizx with The Thunderchild, telemetry data should prove to be even more informative than ever before!

Feel free to ask questions and discuss recent telemetry here!

Archives:


Monster and Hunter stats (Evolve Legacy)
Telemetry and Game Balance 8.0.0
#2

#3

It’s a little too soon for post-micropatch telemetry info but I thought I’d start off with some pre-micropatch info (@chrono).

I included some of the basic charts you guys love to look at. If you want to see something else feel free to discuss it and I’ll see if I can get some kind of chart to contribute to the discussion (but no promises).

#PRE-MICROPATCH TELEMETRY
DOES NOT INCLUDE TELEMETRY AFTER THE MICROPATCH

I split each of the screenshots into two. The first screenshot will be all player ranks. The second is the same time frame but player rank 40 only.

Unknown in these charts are usually draw games.

Interesting to see that rank 40 players are doing almost x2 more damage compared to all players.

Keep in mind “utilities” (like Cabot’s damage amp, Val’s sniper rifle hitmarkers, etc) are applied to the person dealing damage, and not towards Cabot with his damage amp. This chart is damage dealt to monster only (no wildlife).

The black line here is Round DPS (total damage / round length). This chart is damage dealt to hunters only (no wildlife).

This graph shows multiple things. The height of each individual bar represents the number of rounds that fit in a “bucket” or minute. The color of the bar represents if there are more hunter wins or monster wins, with a grey bar being close to 50/50. For example, you can see that games end in less than 10 minutes are usually hunter favored since the monster is generally at stage 1.

POST-MICROPATCH TELEMETRY

I feel like the dust is still settling from the micropatch so I’m going to wait a week or two before I post any telemetry information. When I do I’ll post it here and reply to this thread with what I’ve added.

Wasteland Maggie seems to be doing over 36% less damage overall post-micropatch :maggie_wasteland:

E.M.E.T. is dishing out about 27% more heals post-micropatch :emethealing:


#4

I love you


#5

This just goes to show that the game was not hunter favored from the previous patch. If you are complaining that it’s hunter favored, take a look at the WLR for level 40s. My god, 2.2% difference is not the end of the world.

I’m interested to see how this MP tilted the tables or if it did.


@mizx I’ll be waiting for the MP Telemetry graphs.


#6

Interesting to see that long, drawn out relay fights are balanced, whereas monsters win with an early S3 or late S2.


#7

Yeah the overall is usually pretty close to 50%, about +/- 5% in my experience. Once you dig into specific matchups is where you see a lot of the big spreads of W/L percentages across the Monsters and Hunters.


#8

Is there a way to see Defend telemetry?

I always have problems there.


#9

Let’s see what the win rates are for certain match ups and ranks(bronze 1 - gold 5).

A basic level 40 average doesn’t tell us much.


#10

@mizx any news on if and when telemetry will be publicly available?


#11

If you really think pub play shows where the balance is then I don’t know what to say


#12

Truth is level 40 doesn’t take very long. Also, doesn’t account for certain comps. Maybe it is monster favored with a Laz comp but Hunter favored with chase comp.


#13

Chances are the higher up on the Ranked ladder a person is, the more likely they have a team and use mics. Level 40 shows people who have put 60+ hours into the game. I, myself only play QP with rarely any friends and rarely use a mic.

It is a personal choice to play Evolve from a competitive standpoint as much as a pub standpoint. It’s not the end of the world if this game has no competitive scene, and thus is not how this game should be balanced.

True, but that’s the equivalent of saying Behemoth has a higher chance of winning against a Laz. It’s how the monster acts and reacts to those comps. Some fail hard against Laz, while others don’t sweat over him.


I look at the level 40 WLR because it shows the game as a whole, minus new players. Since TRS doesn’t balance the game separately on platforms and rank, it means the game is balanced. From a low level standpoint, yes, Monster might be OP. With high-level play, Hunters will be more OP.

Digging into the specifics only provides biased evidence towards one’s opinion on weather the game is Hunter or Monster Favored. Now I have my own opinions on certain hunters and monster, but not Hunter/Monster favored in general. All I did was point out that fact to those who believe the game tilts in one direction is complete BS.


#14

Level 40 shows what the game is like, generally. It doesn’t negate that there are superior comps, and it doesn’t negate that there are UP characters on either side. What it does show is that overall people play evolve, when they’re no longer “New”, in a way that collectively sees a fairly balanced game.

For all the people playing Waggie comps vs Kraken, there are others playing other comps vs other monsters and doing less well.

Overall it suggests that actually monsters don’t have a tough time of it at a large amount of skill levels, and certainly not against comps that aren’t the tried and true meta.

A listing of WLR at Silver 5+ level hunters isn’t going to show how balanced the game is, it’s going to show how balanced a comp is. I understand why people want to have that data presented without context because it helps their personal narrative from their personal experience… which isn’t actually the full picture on how the game is working for everyone.

The WLRs per character are much more interesting, and I feel much more relevant to discussion, than WLRs by amount of time played or their rank. Statistically it’s important to maintain integrity, and just looking at high ranked players isn’t going to have good statistical integrity because of the sample involved, it won’t be a reflection on the game, it’ll be a reflection on a specific way of playing the game… something that may in itself need dealing with, but is only a part of the wider balance of the game, not the full story.


#15

I was using the WLR from level 40 to disprove the theory that the game if favored one way or the other.

But I agree. I’d rather see hunter/monster data to make observations off certain characters/monsters. Thus showing how they might fail in many categories like Laz, for example.


#16

Level 40 doesn’t mean much.

Game could be incredibly well balanced for bronzes or silver elite but when you got to higher skill levels it was the hunters game to lose. Didn’t matter how well monster played if the hunters played perfectly the monster lost even if they played perfectly too and then you had comps that were even more forgiving that let the hunters make those occasional mistakes and still beat the monster.


#17

It shows the game as a whole. From pub to competitive, it shows that the overall game is balanced.

If you’re going to look at sub-levels of Ranked then the data becomes more obsure to one side. The difference is that Ranked is a personal choice. If you want to be in the Silver League, prepare to fight more coordnated hunters. If you’re in the Bronze League, prepare to see a lot of Kraken and/or buffed monsters since this recent MP.

It’s a choice to play ranked. Yes, higher up on the rank ladder you are, you should expect certain thing as with any game with ranked-based matching. This data means nothing for balancing because if you put Evolve into a jar, It is balanced because of the close WLR.

The only data that I see matters is hunter class data. It shows who does better than others.

If you’re going into ranked ladder semantics then you also have to look at playtime of hunters and monster, what tactics do they know, etc.


#18

Yeah and it can be extremely well balanced in the middle while having huge differences at the bottom and the top which is why looking at level 40 does not tell you whether the game is balanced. Looking at the game as a whole is not how you balance for skill levels. You look at the higher skill levels you look at the lower skill levels you look at the in between you find out who is doing well and who isn’t and then you try to make changes based on that you don’t look at total WLR and say looks fine.


#19

May I ask, @mizx, lord of telemetry, how much time is long enough for 8.1 telem?


#20

One week minimum, but it’ll probably be more accurate after two.