Summarizing Evolve in 3 key points


#1

Because im feeling salty and I want to make a form of rant:

The game is centered in 3 points and everything that falls out of these 3 points is garbage in the game currently:

Burst Damage

Burst Healing

Burst Negation


If you do not have Burst Damage wheter as a hunter or a Monster you cannot get through the Armor/Shields/Healing of Caira/Sunny/Hank

If you do not possess Burst healing then you can never out heal anything the monster does.

If you do not possess Burst negation then you will never be able to endure against any monster in the fucking game. Shielding is so important at the moment that you cannot replace it for anything at all. AT ALL. Caira has to be kept alive with the Shield or the game is over immediatly.

I like to call this the Triple Burst Pillar or TBP for short and I think it accurately describes the meta in the game currently.

Examples of Burst Damage: Lightning Strike/Aftershock/Rock Throw/Leap Smash/Warp Blast/Arc Mines/Toxic Grenades/Orbital Strike

Everything else is more or less self explanetory. You may argue that you “can win” with something like Cabot or Lazarus but its at the expense of one or several of the three pillars governing the meta currently. Which means you are shooting yourself in the leg at the expense of a niché.

A good example of a “viable” niché: Val Griffin Sunny = Monster has the hardest time ever escaping the hunters and evolving.
This niché comes at the expense of any burst healing besides the occasional Heal burst. However it works so well because you dont have to sacrifice damage negation and burst damage in order to make maximum use of it.

However this setup falls to shreds if the monster reaches stage 2/3 without any punishment mainly because:

Val cannot outheal a level 3 Rock Throw without a shield. If its Sunny then the monster destroys the drone and then throws the Burst ability on to the trapper and follows it up with a few melees/a ability. This MAY be prolonged with a Heal burst but by the second time the burst ability is available again the Heal Burst will still be on cooldown and that means the trapper is getting a strike.


Obviously you can beat monsters/Hunters with the right circumstances and mistakes going around and it gives it more variables however the 3 points remain.

This is why Bucket is unviable -> He has no damage negation and has no burst damage meaning he has nothing but slow setup crowd control through turrets and a weak rocket launcher that merely tickles for all the effort it takes to fire them.


Right im done ranting and now everybody else can throw around their thoughts and opinions as much as they want. Just keep it civil.


#2

No, that would be DPS.

Well, Cabot offer burst damage and Lazarus offer burst healing, so you are actually wrong.

Eh, you are right, but for the wrong reason. He is weak because even Cabot do more damage than him, not because he does not offer burst damage. He is supposed to be the DPS support while Cabot is the burst damage support, but even Cabot’s rail cannon deal more DPS than Bucket’s turrets in an average game.

Against equal opponents burst damage is always better than DPS, even though something focused on DPS might be doing more damage in the long run, but Evolve is an exception. As the hunters you are not going to burst the monster down, you have to continuously chew through its health. Some weapons are more burst than others, that is correct, but they are all DPS based at the end of the day, with the exception of mines, damage amp and orbital.

As for the monster however, burst is the king. You want to focus one hunter down as quickly as possible, even if the ability you use have a long cooldown. Almost all of the monsters abilities are burst, with the exceptions being: Super Nova and Fire Breath.

Well, you are correct. The term is Damage Mitigation, btw. Keep in mind that dodging also reduce the damage you take so shields are not required, but they help. And more importantly, they “stack” with burst healing. And when something is very effective, it become a part of the meta.

To prove the point, if TRS added a trapper that somehow provides extra defense, as an example a shield, the hunter would with no doubt be integrated into the Hank and Caira meta.


P.S:

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1313628122329.jpg


#3

Like for that funny image at the end.


#4

YFW

Every medic has Heal BURST

Heal BURST

BURST


#5

He talks about how a single burst really isn’t enough in the long run.


#6

I know, I wanted to keep the reaction pics going…

If you follow that logic though then no medic other than Caira is viable.

The Devs have also mentioned that right now Val out heals Caira (HPS if you will)

Burst Damage against Laz or even Val to a lesser extent is not as effective, whittling down each hunter and switching often forced Val to switch targets and for Laz forces multiple revives in shorter bursts, forcing a cooldown wait and putting Laz in the thick of it more, increasing risk.

Burst damage, while awesome is a flawed point because Markov is the least Bursty, he is all about that sustained damage and is by far the most picked hunter in higher level (ESL) play. Hell even Hyde sees a lot of play now and his DPS is sustained, not Bursty.

The only thing I agree almost completely on Burst Negation (if it means something like Damage Mitigation). You don’t have to heal damage you don’t take with responsible jet-pack fuel management!


#7

Hunt, be hunted, evolve


#8

Hydes Grenades are “dps” but when used correctly against the monster they become a extra bit of rushed DPS. You can argue its either DPS or BURST but I like to think of it as burst because of the ticking rate on the Grenade and the fact that it is very rarely if ever being used on its own.

Correct. Cabot offers Burst which is why he functions as a niché but you sacrifice the most important pillar of damage negation from shielding. Meaning you have to be able to trust the fact that your teammates never get hit by Burst or they are dead. Especially your medic.

Lazarus doesnt have burst besides the Heal Burst. Which is on a long cooldown. Which barely gives 25% hp back.
It wont keep anyone alive against a persistant monster. You give up healing all together with Lazarus to have the niché of removing strikes all-together.

Which is why Caira is the better medic.

Hunters have passive damage mitigation/burst negation with Jetboosts but that is a extremely limited supply and a persistant monster who wants the hunter to die will kill it.

Val outheals until her gun runs out or the monster decides to slap the thing she is healing behind a pillar. Her healing aint bursty in the slightest. Topping up people takes an eternity and a monster who decides to work over the entire hunter team means that by the time she has gotten one out of the danger zone the other 2 or sometimes even Val herself are in the danger zone themselves.

Markov is still viable because his mines can be used to punish loops in a dome as well as give safety for his team (damage negation with a form of Burst damage). A single mine stops a rockthrow when placed and used correctly. And monsters end up wasting abilities to destroy those mines which in return means even more damage is being negated.

You are clearly only thinking about his Lightning Gun/AR which is the wrong thing to do.
Markovs mines are godlike in many ways and they force monsters to either waste abilities or to take the burst damage from the mines.

Oh yeah and Markovs lightning gun destroys Banshee mines immediatly which is another form of damage mitigation.


#9

No, you can’t. Burst damage is a lot of guaranteed damage being dealt in a short amount of time.
If the monster decide to stay in the cloud. he is taking DPS, which is more damage in the long run, but not burst in any way.

No, no.
Cabot is still being used in high level play, because Hank’s shield isn’t OP, if that’s what you are implying.
As I said:

In pubs, a defensive team comp will always be prefered, not because they can’t learn to dodge, but because it require the least effort from the team. In higher level play there is a bit more room to experiment with the meta, but its unlikely you will not find a team with atleast one of the defensive hunters, aka Hank and Caira.

Lazarus is a burst healer because he bring a hunter from 0% to 100% in a second.

If everyone played against Lazarus like they play against Caira, Lazarus would be the best medic, hands down.
But the problem is that he is so easy counterable, as long as you take a second and think, not because of his lack of healing.

You are correct, though “least bursty” is a weird way to say it. Hyde’s flamethower isn’t burst either. Super Soldier can be called burst, I guess and Torvald to quite a bit of instant damage, so I guess we can call him burst aswell, but they are all DPS based at the end of the day.


#10

See the Hunters with their piece of crap jetpacks have supreme mobility. I’ve been hit by rocks like twice. There is no excuse.

If you run out of fuel, you’ve already dodged a tonne of damage- and failed to use terrain to your advantage needless to say- then the Monster’s already lost like half his health because trollvald.


#11

Meanwhile I’ve seen games won because of relentless DPS and good coverage/pressure. Hyde for example in a team that keeps on the monsters tail, teams with Maggie or Griffin where the assault isn’t quite doing their task to the full, those games won because Crow managed to keep chipping away at health throughout the game.


#12

OP is absolutely right about the meta IMO. The meta is based off of burst. If a team gives up too much burst, they will probably lose. Having said that, player skill, along with a team focus, can help. For example, a team with Val, Bucket, Abe, and Hyde. This team offers a very large amount of AOE. It also offers no shield, which means that if Val is focused, she is pretty much on her own. However, having said that, the AOE means that the team can create a central area that represents a metaphorical monster “hell”, so player skill could mean that while they have no “Burst Negation” if a monster wants to kill the medic they have to take a large amount of DPS, because of the amount of time it would take to chase someone through turrets, stasis, poison, and the wall of hunters. So maybe the monster decides to focus someone besides the medic down, to help get rid of an aspect of his torture. Val is very good at keeping individuals up, even without a shield. In the end, I personally wouldn’t choose this team, I love burst too much, but that doesn’t mean that (with player skill compensating) a team without burst cannot win competitively