Stop Making Wraith a BRAWLER. NOW Please


Seriously. You’ve destroyed her as a stealth monster and since almost every monster is a brawler now, there really isn’t any variety, except which monster you can survive with, and Wraith ain’t one who can survive a good team or even a noob assault who has an active trigger finger. Not to mention anyone who has stuck around this long is most likely now a good team, so buff the Wraith and make her the stealth assassin she was. I’m very tired of practically being forced to not use my favorite monster due to the fact every hunter team stomps her into the ground. Her speed needs to be back to how it was on release, especially now that the domes insta-drop and there is an Arena mode now.

Either buff her and make her the fast stealth assassin now or just remove her because I’m really tired of you guys playing with the emotions of Wraith players, TRS. Her adaptation better be amazing when you get around to her.


What do you mean there isn’t any variety? her abilities are completely different than other monsters. Your definition of a brawler is also very far off, Goliath is the only thing close to what a brawler is supposed to be, in the middle of a giant fight, messing everyone’s shit up with leap smashes and rock throws.

Wraith still retains her assassin title considering she relies on hit and run play styles to accumulate strikes while avoiding taking full fire from a team while also controlling the fight with abducts and precise warp blast placement. Without doing this she has a more difficult time wiping a team later on, hence why she relies on stacking strikes. Goliath however can have an easier time stage 3 with the amount of burst he can put out on multiple people at once whereas Wraith excels at strong single target pressure through her combo and a super nova.

Remember that these are supposed to be monsters, not something you are never supposed to fight until its 3, it’s meant to be a primal beast that will tear you apart if you get too close and the way Wraith does that is what I mentioned above.

Demanding a buff or nerf to something isn’t the solution. Go into detail about why you are losing games and don’t bring up domes because that is a player issue, there are many ways a monster can deal with the fast domes and it all starts with the feeding route. It’s extremely easy to hit stage 2 before the 2 min mark and even if you get domed s1 you should have enough armor to mitigate an early dome with little to no health damage, please don’t use fast domes as an excuse for losses.

  1. Please watch your tone. You can get your point across in a way that expresses your distastes without doing so in this manner. There’s no need for such comments such as “do X thing now or just remove it”. Clearly they won’t remove it, that’s a joke even suggesting to remove her, and they will do what they want with the character regardless of opinions as they will do what they feel is the right thing to do.

  2. Wraith is getting pretty major changes in TU09 so hold on the criticism until then.

  3. All adaptations thus far have been amazing, why would Wraith’s be any different. There’s a mass request as of now to bring back the old Wraith so it is pretty likely we’re going to have Brawler Wraith as OG and her adaptation will be more like Launch Wraith.

  4. Don’t get your hopes up for a launch Wraith or anything close though, while it is hopeful wishes it is also slightly delusional as many people hate chasing a stealth Monster while I for one love playing her. I am from the standpoint where she is my favorite if not very close second Monster and I hate what she’s become.


###Note: Nothing is guaranteed or set it stone AFAIK.


He’s referring to the fact that none of them truly have very defined playstyles, this however is supposedly changing in TU09 but as of right now, facing a Goliath is not much different from facing a Wraith as both have moves to close the gap between the two of you, both have a single high burst damage ability and both have an ability that gives guaranteed damage.

Wraith doesn’t rely on hit-and-run as much as people would like to believe. That was true with glass-cannon Wraith, not current Wraith. Also saying she has trouble gaining strikes late-game without any early-game is not true, it makes it harder yes, but it isn’t something that would make it clearly difficult. It’s just a matter of they have more health and you’re a bigger target.
Also to say, no Monster has an easy time S3. Stage 3 you are gigantic, clumsy, clunky, and more words, S3 is kinda a last resort in the current meta.

  1. Yes they are Monsters.

  2. They are not “primal beasts” they are highly intelligent lifeforms that develop clear strategies and tactics along with rapid evolution and constant changing of their own genetic codes. They aren’t primal beasts in any sense.

  3. Technically due to the fact that they are intelligent there should be no right and wrong way to play. Every strategy should be a viable one, even the unjoyable ones such as FT3.

The argument he brings up here is fair. He’s referring to the change where Wraith’s overall speed of all her abilities, movement, traversal, and basically everything was drastically reduced to make her easier to catch with 5 second domes, then when domes became instantaneous they never gave her speed back effectively neutering her for no clear reason.
Therefore this argument is completely valid and never once did he mention that he was using it as an excuse for losses, he used it as a way to further his argument towards the discussion.


I feel the exact same way. Hopefully with this new decoy change it’ll allow wraith to quickly rip people to shreds (no pun intended). I’m just hoping the community won’t cry OP when 2 wraiths are attacking them, even though I’m 99.8% sure they will.


I’m just hoping the changes feel good and that she feels how she should. As I said in another thread, I have no doubt that Wraith adaptation will be amazing but if it isn’t the Wraith community will ride to TRS pitchfork and torch in hand.


I have absolutely no clue on what the wraith adaption could be, I was thinking maybe a passive cloak if you’re still, but otherwise no idea.

You ever considered switching to Gorgon since wraith was basically ruined? She’s quite fun actually :slight_smile:


Gorgon is my main pretty much. I feel I’ll always like her better given the direction Wraith has gone.


They are monsters, they don’t use rifles, of course they all need to get in your face. My point was she has an advantage over other monsters when it comes to controlling a single hunter in a fight through the use of her combo which involves tumble locking and has an easy time of disengaging if she so pleases. Goliath uses abilities on cd for significant amounts of damage but does allow for brief periods of time for a hunter to recover.

Glass cannon anything is not what this game needs. Give that to someone who knows how to play that character and he will insta-gib anyone he/she wants and this gives hunters no way to deal with that, all the while accumulating strikes and dealing less and less health damage to the monster. When does feeling helpless ever = fun?

I said it’s harder for her, didn’t say it was impossible. It’s easier to gain strikes on hunters s2 when you have all the points you need in addition to armor but when they have a chance to set up and are able to open fire before you get to them, you put yourself at a disadvantage by not putting permanent health damage on a hunter early on.

I’m aware of this, Wraith however, much like Gorgon suffer a little more than the rest at s3 due to their squishy nature. Goliath, Behemoth and Kraken have an easier time all-inning a team at s3 for a win.

Monster definition:

  • a strange or horrible imaginary creature
  • something that is extremely or unusually large
  • a powerful person or thing that cannot be controlled and that causes many problems

Not sure how I’m wrong in considering them as beasts, you don’t see them use knives and forks to eat their meals. The characters themselves call them beasts all the time…

Every monster gets domed just as frequently as she does, roughly once per stage. This is also a monster player skill that is required if you plan on going up in rank. Things like feeding routes and knowing a map are what help you deal with the domes. You are going to get domed whether you like it or not so its a matter of where you force it to go down.


Its so weird because Gorgon for me is way stealthier, faster (web slings go a long way), and harder to hit. Wraith is basically a step behind in all those categories except attack speed, but in high level wraith can do better. Does 3 DoTs really lose out to about 2 reliable sources of damage?


No they don’t, hence why things like Behemoth and Kraken exist. They have slightly different styles but generally very similar. That will be changing.

Fun is subjective and a glass cannon Monster is what many people want from Wraith.

Goliath? Maybe. Kraken definitely, and Behemoth? Lol nope.

Technically you’re not wrong on the beast aspect but you’re very wrong on the “primal” aspect. As stated, they’re highly intelligent.

You’re not understanding the point being made so I’ll be ignoring this part of the discussion.

Also, Wraith, Gorgon and Kraken are the best Stage 3 Monsters considering their hitboxes and all else.


Not going to comment on wraith as I’m not a competitive wraith main. Not going to comment on Kraken because I 100% agree with you, as does most of the community. Gorgon however is a different story. Currently she lacks the initiating abilities needed to close the distance on a team that’s set up. Mimic is shot down before it gets anywhere near to do significant damage so you need to get in there yourself and as you slowly swing in you’ve already lost 3 bars of armor. Just take my word for it, Gorgon definitely (as of patch 8.0) has one of the hardest times fighting s3 at relay, if not, the hardest time out of them all. Fighting in earlier stages however is easier to a degree than others since most of her power currently is against chase comps.

(Not a Gorgon thread so I apologize for the lengthy talk on that but I felt it should be clarified where the monsters stand from a s3 perspective when talking about them in comparison)


I have been incredibly disappointed in quite a few of the adaptations. Namely, Blitzkov, Meteor goliath, and Rogue Val.


This is the point actually… Almost all monsters feel helpless against a decent communicating team.

Hunters have a lot more different playstyles than monsters. Wraith was a unique monster
because she was a silent/invisible hit and run monster unlike all other monsters. But now she has the same play style as Goliath.

Think about Lazarus. He is a really unique character. And from a monster perspective he is really annoying. Yes he is annoying but not OP if you know how to play against him. AND THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. What would hunters feel if TRS changed Lazarus so that he can no longer revive downed hunters ? Think about them giving him a just a little bit more health and healing while taking away his invisibility and revive. He would be just an ordinary medic. This is what happened to Wraith. The only time Wraith was actually OP was when she was first released. But hunters cried so much TRS kept nerfing her. And they changed her completely.

I really don’t like and understand the hunters who say all monsters should be brawlers meanwhile they have totally different medics, trappers and supports. But they start crying as soon as they see a monster who has a different play style. They cried over Wraith and still crying and they cried over Gorgon’s abilities (especially the spider trap). I was hoping that Gorgon would be a new stealth monster before the release but nope, she is just an another brawler.

So tell me now, who is feeling helpless ?


Fun and all, but these are a dead giveaway as to where a monster is going. Most of the time only one or two routes are effective and with Mad Mags in the current meta it’s quite easy to figure out where to go. Adding a Kala or Sunny to the bunch and you’ll find that either you’re getting a lot of damage after you get to stage 2, or you’ll be getting a lot of damage before you get to stage 2.

In that sense it’s not the dome that’s the issue, but the hunters being fast and precise enough to track a monster before it gets either to stage 2 with full armor, or gets to stage 2 (again depending on the support that was picked).

As for Wraith being a brawler… She’s in a tough position. Either you’re able to chain her stuns, or you’re not; that’s the definition of winning as a Wraith player in higher ranked matches. It’s not about singling out a hunter anymore, because teamwork has gotten to the point where most players have figured out how to dodge, or how to position themselves in favorable locations.

I used to main Wraith before they started toying with the melee arc ranges and knockback… Nowadays I can’t win with her for the life of me. Used to score easy victories on stage 1 and 2… Those days are long gone =)


Just means they weren’t your style then. Can’t expect someone to love and play all characters equally.

I like rogue Val more than Val. And I like meteor goliath a lot, even if I’m not used to him. I love Tech Sergeant Hank more than normal hank.

Adaptations are meant to get a character and change them to fit a different niche. If everyone loves them, that’s just a bonus. If only some people love them, then the goal was met


Mostly just tryin to show the guy that a different opinion exists. I don’t like them because they are too close to their originals, they don’t differ enough for my tastes.


get out :point_right:


The decoy change is stupid, its not even a decoy its just a spawn to fight. Nothing sneaky about it and people are gonna know which one is you immediately and not even bother with the decoy.

How are people even supposed to get the third star now, it specifically says stealth pounce while INIVISIBLE. Good luck pouncing anybody in a fight since they are gonna focus on you, especially since doing anything that isn’t a melee attack or warp will give you away if it wasn’t obvious which one was you already


The 3rd star achievement will be changed since invis will be gone. They’ve changed them before.