Stage 3 needs nerf across the board?


#1

So, part of the reason this game loses its appeal is when you get some player who is more interested in winning than having a good game.

“Flee til 3” is a valid strategy for the win but it is booooring.

The problem as I see it is that it’s far too easy for the monster to clean house at level 3 against a team of hunters with no strikes.

Any monster who gets to stage 3 deserves a big advantage, no doubt. But when that advantage is so large that rushing to get it is the most valid strategy to win, the game is painting itself into a corner.

I think that stage 3 monsters should be made less powerful so that monsters have an incentive to engage and earn those down tickets.

As a monster player, I find it easy to win most games at stage 2. Stage 3 is game over against 99% of pubs. I don’t think I’m a very good monster player but I will stomp most random teams.

What are your thoughts on this?


#2

I hope i don’t come off as agressively rude when i say this, so here goes.

My thoughts on this very matter is that people need to L2P. nowbare with me, by that im not calling people scrubs or noobs, i despise these terms.

But the only reason why monsters get to S3 easily is because the hunters are doing a piss-poor job of cutting it off and catching it in a dome early game (stage 1/2).
This is mostly because of the trappers either being too trigger happy with the dome, and missing it. or simply always being in the wrong spot becasue they don’t predict monster movement properly.


#3

Yeah, simple fact is that if the Hunter team hasn’t found the Monster by S3, then they were outplayed.


#4

Yup, so sad panda how often I still see 4 hunters basically following single file the entire game trying to catch a monster. Imo you can get a pass if it’s Wraith, it’s escape ability is pretty crazy atm even inside a dome…but Goliath and Kraken lvl 3 means you/your team aren’t doing a good job at all.


#5

The monsters are very powerful at lower level because hunters don’t quite have a grip on how to track, cut off, and dome the monster yet but as you progress/level up(around level 25 you’ll start to see the scale tipping) I swear it really shows how the hunters are the ones who are powerful and should be feared not the monster. Be it of course the monster isn’t stage three yet.


#6

‘It’s really bad that playing to get an advantage is the best strategy’.

That’s the whole point of the game, though. At stage 1, the hunters are at an advantage, at stage 2, they’re about even, and at stage 3, the monster has the advantage. That’s it, that’s the game.

The hunter’s job is to try to prevent the monster from hitting stage 3, or to weaken it enough to make stage 3 manageable. Why would the monster want to fight at stage 1, when they’re at a clear disadvantage? Stage 2 they can go in if they’re confident, and the stats of 47% monster winrate at stage 2 shows that. (It’s probably slightly skewed due to them being injured before hitting 2, or being found just after evolving with 0 armour), but if they want a sheer advantage, then stage 3 is the best bet.

That’s what the game is about, and if you find it boring, it’s not the game for you, which is fine. Not every game is for you. I think too many people have bought this game thinking it’s more of a deathmatch instead of a game of cat and mouse.


#7

Totally agree with what you’re saying.

But in my experience, with a solid team of players, it’s pretty consistent that you’ll get dome and with the monster playing peek a boo, you’re only be able to peel off armour before the monster runs and the scenario repeats.

The monster being evasive in the dome and choosing to run instead of fight is where the mechanics are leading people. This is fine at stage 1. Baby monster wants to obviously get his skates on.

I’m wondering what people think about how to change things so the monster is more incentivized to fight at stage 2.

Playing for an advantage is no doubt valid. But when you have monsters at stage 2 with full armor running instead of fighting, I think it’s a bit of a design flaw.

At that point the monster needs to be thinking “I need to put some work in here to make my stage 3 advantage a sure thing”. The hunters capturing the monster at stage 1 is definitely not a sure win. I regularly survive multiple domes at stage 1.

What’s not as regular is losing at stage 3.

It’s on the level playing field of stage 2 that things are most fun. Do people not want o see more engagements at this stage of the game?

I always pick a fight at stage 2. Usually as an ambush.

I just think the stakes need to be raised so the hunter/hunted tipping point happens more regularly at stage 2.

The answer I see for this is making stage 3 monsters not as powerful.


#8

I think that suggesting Monster nerfs leads me to believe you’re either an exclusive Wraith player or are sub level 40.


#9

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my post. I don’t think this is a problem is about “not being able to find the monster.”

It’s about incentivizing him/her to do more than run to stage 3.

Right now, the fights are the climaxes of the game.

A good game - IMO - has the right balance of tracking, intercepting, fighting, hunting, evading, hiding and showdowns.

It needs all of these to be a great game. But mostly, it needs engagements. A game with few meaningful engagements is less interesting and fun than one with lots. For both sides.

Some people may disagree, but I think most people I play with and have spoken with admit that this game shines when the gloves come off.

But the design means that monster’s thought process for winning is to evade them at all costs until they are stage 3.

I personally think that this leads to a higher percentage of less interesting games because of fewer engagements.

Having BOTH teams thinking about the need to engage at stage 2 would mean more fun IMO.

Do you disagree?


#10

I must agree, and I’ll purposely fight around stage two for a few reasons.
1: A break from the tracking, I know all too well how tedious it can get.
2: Strikes, even in they have a Laz, I’ll simply laser target him or eat a corpse.
3: I simply enjoy it, even fights are equally enjoyable for both sides typically.


#11

I like to engage at S2 just because eating for the Evolve Meter is a bit tedious, but no, I don’t think that some arbitrary mechanism needs to be integrated to force the Monster to engage before it’s ready unless the Hunters, you know, capture it, like in their job description. :blush:


#12

Birds of a feather stage 2 full armor, why eat? Disrupt birds stand around corner hold Rick throw and wait for the first person to pop up most likely assault hit him (most of the time they pop shield out of fear) and go straight for the one who starts healing him lol.


#13

Mostly play with Kraken. And I’m lvl 28 after a reset.

I’d probably be lvl 35-40 otherwise.

I play with mostly lvl 40s


#14

This absolutely is the game for me.

Haven’t had this much fun in years. When this game shines, it’s one of the best I have ever played.

I just think it would be more fun with a change to the average game tempo.

I mean, how much more interesting would it be to constantly be hunting at stage 2, but always being wary of an ambush? Or the monster coming to pick a fight at any time?

The tension levels would be highly amplified instead of the more frequent occurrence of looking at the arse of a stage 2 monster.

I can count on one hand the number of times a stage 2 monster has picked a fight with our team.


#15

I agree that there needs to be more fighting and less elusive gameplay (one of the reasons I think Wraith is heavily flawed in design and extremely anti-fun). I disagree however with your solution of nerfing Stage 3 Monsters. If anything Stage 1 needs improving so that the Monster would consider fishing for strikes. This would also help with the unbalance at the moment in high level play with the game heavily favoring Hunters.

Getting domed at stage 1 most often does so much permanent damage to Goliath and Kraken that their odds of winning drop dramatically if they aren’t outright killed or tailed to the point of being killed. Getting domed at stage 2 first isn’t a game ender and can go either way.

Perhaps if the Monster was given 4/3/2 ability points at stages 1/2/3 respectively it would improve the game, at least for Goliath and Kraken.


#16

ill never understand the obession with rushing to stage three. Ive been saying it for months. Flee til 3 is a piss poor strategy esp. when your hunters become slightly competent. the advantage to fighting stage two is you get to use the armor (rather then just losing it to evolving) to get some incaps on hunters.

With out incaps on hunters a stage three fight is in the hunters favor esp if they are fighting on their terms (ie relay). I’ve never lost to a monster that fled til s3 and met us at the relay, they get rofl stomped.

I main monster and always engage when i have full armor at stage 2 or before if i get caught. I’ve rarely been rage caged without my consent either.

In conclusion, stage three does not need a nerf.


#17

Sometimes its smart to rush to stage 3. Good teams can eat your armor in 15 seconds or less. Even if good domes.


#18

I personally want to keep the challenge, if they’ve been running till 3 I’m ready to put em down hard for making Hank run so long


#19

Alert the masses.
Its time.
Time for the hankering


#20

As a lot of people have explained it largely boils down to the hunters not being on the ball enough,
not using the map to effectively cut off the monsters route,
the most common thing I see when I do play hunter ( 20% of the time ) is the trapper running directly behind the monster and not attempting to flank or even box/alter its path.

Ive been on the receiving end of some brutal hunter comps, and its not that often I come out unscathed, though do always try for a strike before high tailing it! They have only been successful when as mentioned they have flanked and out played me!

Quite simply though, this is a still quite a new game and you cant expect to much from the general public and their ability to work as a coordinated team!