Stage 3 Issues and Suggestions Thread


#1

This topic doesn’t really need an introduction. A lot of people find that Stage 3 isn’t nearly as useful as it once was. Many high level Monsters prefer to finish fights at Stage 2 and conserve Stage 3 for if they need a health increase, and even then, the increased Monster size makes evolving to Stage 3 a double-edged sword. Now some of us would say the obvious solution is ‘just buff Stage 3,’ but most of you reading this know as well as I do that it’s never that easy, because making Stage 3 powerful also means that Flee-Til-3 players get a buff towards their playstyle, which TRS has not only put a lot of effort in discouraging, but also loathed by low-middle skilled players.

READ ME
{{I am aware of the impending TU and the possibility of Monster melee damage scaling with stage. I know it might be a little late to suggest these implementations but I do think that it would still be okay to talk about Stage 3 balance. I am also aware that Stage 3 Balance is not at the forefront of TRS’s balancing priorities. Roaching and other topics that are of major balance concern right now may be relevant to the topic but should not take away from the focus. Thank you!!}}

I know most of my suggestions probably won’t work as well as I think they might, but I’ll post some of them down below. I, personally, don’t think Stage 3’s only purpose should be getting more health. Tell me what you think and post your own opinions and suggestions on what to do to make stage 3 more viable again.

######and please don’t hit me…

##General

  • Monsters now gain a buff at Stage 3 that is appropriate for the Monster they are. These buffs can stack with perks, but not wildlife buffs, provided they involve a stat that perks and wildlife buffs change.

##Goliath/Meteor Goliath

  • Upon reaching Stage 3, Goliath gets a slight damage buff. 1-2.5%, maybe?
  • Abilities and heavy melee get some added bonus upon reaching Stage 3.
  • Leap Smash radius increased by 10-15%
  • Fire Breath range increased 5% OR Fire Breath lights the ground it hits on fire for 5 seconds.
  • Rock Throw speed increased 2%
  • Charge has better handling at Stage 3.
  • Melee heavy has 5% increased range

Reasoning: Goliath, and to an extent, Meaty, have little to no ways of controlling Hunter movement outside of combos, which all Monsters can do. Kraken has Banshee Mines as area denial, Wraith has Abduction, Behemoth has Lava Bomb, Tongue Grab and Rock Wall, and Gorgon has Spider Trap and, arguably, Acid Spray. Not all of these moves are used or are always useful in limiting Hunter movement, but these abilities are available to these Monsters nonetheless. As a Monster who is very easily kiteable, Goliath needs either bigger moves, some form of area denial, or, preferably, a little of both. This would make life a little easier on Goliath, such that one pillar would not be all it takes to cripple him.

##Kraken

  • Upon reaching Stage 3, Kraken will get a 2.5% faster cooldown rate on abilities.
  • Little, if anything, about Kraken’s abilities would be changed at Stage 3. If I had to change certain abilities, those ideas are below, but Kraken does not have great, if any, need for better abilities.
  • Lightning Strike may move 2.5-5% faster
  • Banshee Mines may have slightly more health.
  • No change to Aftershock
  • Vortex may move 1-2.5% faster
  • Possibly a stronger resistance to getting brought down from flight at Stage 3??

Reasoning: Kraken is very strong in combat right now, so I think if my ideas were implemented, he’d be on the short end of the stick. Take it not that I think Kraken is OP, but that Kraken is perfectly fine in combat right now and can decently mitigate damage at Stage 3 due to his ability to fly and stay out of range of most Assaults’ highly damaging attacks.

##Wraith

  • Upon reaching Stage 3, Wraith would get a 5-10% Movement Speed buff OR a 5-10% faster Traversal Regen rate. It’s can go either way.
  • Stage 3 ability buffs
  • Warp Blast travel distance increased 2.5-5%
  • Abduction travel distance increased 2.5-5%
  • No comment on Decoy due to overhaul in impending TU (RIP Invisibility and lore consistency, haha)
  • Supernova does 1-2.5% more damage.

Reasoning: When I watched the Wraith trailer, the coolest thing about it for me was seeing Abduction in action. It, along with the invisibility provided by Decoy, solidified Wraith as the assassin Monster for me. Though Decoy’s invisibility may get thrown at the window (which I have mixed feelings about), Abduction is still an excellent tool for ambush. By increasing Warp Blast and Abduction’s travel distance, I think it would put a little assassin-style play back into Wraith’s playstyle.

##Behemoth

  • Upon reaching Stage 3, Behemoth will get a 5-7.5% Damage Resistance buff OR 3 more bars of armor than Stage 1 or Stage 2 Behemoth.
  • Stage 3 ability buffs
  • Lava Bomb has slightly extended range (1-2.5%)
  • Fissure has slightly extended range (1-2.5%)
  • Tongue Grab executes slightly faster
  • Rock Wall stays up for 1-2 more seconds

Reasoning: As much as I love Bob (2nd favorite Monster), I don’t think his abilities need buffs as much as they need fixes. Tongue Grab and Rock Wall are buggy - their issues are not so much damage and utility as much as it is they just need to be more reliable overall. As for the passive Stage 3 buff, Behemoth is the largest Monster, with the biggest hitbox, and the biggest weakpoint, which is glowing and vulnerable almost every time he initiates an attack. This is by design, and the Hunters SHOULD be rewarded for hitting it. After all, Behemoth is all ‘Yellow Devil’ in that his biggest weakpoint is vulnerable when he attacks. Nevertheless, for a tank character, Behemoth is unbearably buggy and arguably squishy. I may be wrong, but if the ‘50% bullet resistance on all limbs’ statistic is still in effect right now with Behemoth, then he suffers even more due to so many high-damage weapons NOT being ballistic weaponry. I was not sure how to gauge the Damage Resistance buff, so tell me if you think there is a more appropriate percentage.

##Gorgon

  • Upon reaching Stage 3, Gorgon receives a 5-10% Traversal Regen rate OR a 10-25% Sneak Pounce damage buff
  • Wall Pounce has a 5-10% increased range
  • Stage 3 ability buffs
  • No change to Acid Spray
  • Web Snare has a 1-2.5% increased speed
  • Mimic has a 10% faster move speed OR 10-15% more health
  • Spider Trap spider may move a little faster? If not, no change.

Reasoning: I have not really played a lot of Gorgon, so I don’t consider myself good enough to have a great decision on how her Stage 3 ought to be balanced out. Nevertheless, Traversal Regen is typically what I run on her. With her Wall Pounce mechanic, extra Sneak Pounce damage could make it more helpful, unless somebody begs to differ. I would not be surprised if my suggestions for her are off-point and would appreciate any input on what better ideas for her would be.


TL;DR - Please don’t. I put a good bit of effort into this and I would appreciate it if you would kindly read what I suggested.

Those are my ideas. If you guys have any ideas on what to do with Stage 3, please post them. If any of them are particularly well-received by the community, I’ll quote them here so that everybody can see them. Feel free to critique and alter the buffs I suggested here.

EDITED FOR TYPOS

EDIT 2: Another possibility is that radius-based attacks like Leap Smash, Aftershock and Warp Blast are staged based. A Stage 3 Goliath Leap Smash would be huge compared to Stage 1 LS.


#2

I think some extra speed would improve a lot S3 Goliath.

This could help him dealing with terrain.


#3


#4

Personally, I would rather feel more capable of putting strikes on the hunter early in the game and be more dome capable and threatening at Stage 1 as opposed to simply becoming an unstoppable God at stage 3

Cause rewarding a monster with the carrot at the end of Evolving, makes for hunters who fight monsters who have no incentive to down them. Thus further perpetuating flee till three

Cause hey kiddo your most powerful at stage 3 anyways… don’t you want full health too??? Well then runaway


#5

I don’t know about this in general. All of your suggestions are valid and thought out but as a concept I’m not sure…

Right now there is concern/outrage over Monster players using the Flee til 3, especially Wraith players and it working rather well. Players are naturally going to do what is most likely going to get them the W, so making Stage 3 stronger will just promote that like it was in the past.

That being said, I do find my self in agreement with a lot of the calls from the Community that in the case of 2 evenly skilled sides, Stage 3 for a Monster puts them at a disadvantage due to Relay Camping.

Hopefully TRS has figured out a way to make Stage 3 more rewarding, while not promoting a particular play-style that the Community feels is toxic.

[SPOILER] Maybe they have something in the works but most likely only the teasetastic @LordDeath and @Insane_521 know… [/SPOILER]


#6

Yeah, Kraken right now is… Just… No…


#7

“May” as in not needed. Kraken doesn’t need a whole lot more. The ability suggestions are there if I had to choose which ones to change and how to change them. I don’t think Kraken needs very much at all, if anything other than the passive S3 buff.

@miles_mungin That would nice but it would push S3 further into disuse outside of needing HP because one couldn’t finish it at S2. EDIT: My point being it just clashes with what the goal of the Hunters is. They’re supposed to stop the Monster from getting to Stage 3 because that’s when they’ll be at the disadvantage, but as things are, Stage 3 is getting more and more obsolete.


#8

Stage 3 is supposed to be nigh unstoppable.

I’d say, make the health consistent for every stage and scale damage and armor for every stage.


#9

S3 was nigh unstoppable provided the Hunters fail to do sufficient damage at earlier stages.


#10

That’s kinda the point. As I said, my opinion is that Monsters should have consistent health but scale in armor and damage.

Actually, on second thought, scale in health and damage but have the health of S3 at every stage.


#11

Consistent between each other or just stages? Between each other…idk. I was going to say Behemoth in concept was the only Monster that was considered truly unstoppable at S3. But with the standardizing of all Monsters, that concept has been thrown out the window.

Health of S3 across all stages? I feel like that would be a 1 step forward and two steps back. Hunters need to be rewarded for doing permanent damage to S1 and S2 Monsters.


#12

Between stages. Behemoth was meant to be an unstoppable Behemoth (eyyy) at S3 but he never was. Maybe not unstoppable for all Monsters but they definitely needs to have a lot more strength than they do now. In the past S3 was scary, now it’s just the new S2.

I think making health even all stages would encourage health damage but I feel it would be too strong for S1 Monsters who are a smaller target but making armor even across every stage is something that may just work nicely. Scale health and damage for each stage.


#13

The issue in keeping health the same the whole time is it would make S2 the new S3. You’re smaller than S3, you have the abilities you prioritize first to farm strike, but you have S3 HP. S3 would be even closer to being obsolete out of its current state as S2.5


#14

No, they reduced S1 armor because mitigating damage was too easy.

No need to go backward.


#15

-sigh- looks like this thread is gonna die. So much for effort and discussion.


#16

Flee Till Three is gone,

The Future is coming soon,

Rethink all you know.


#17

If Stage 3 isn’t a fallback for Stage 2 anymore, then I’m game!


#18

Oh dear God…

As long as Stage 3 becomes more than just a thing to do for more HP then I’m down.


#19

Did you just Haiku us?

BTW, you wanna get punched high fived in the face through the computer? Because teasers like this is how you do it! :wink: :trophy: HYPE


#20