Sooo I need some community input

pc
evolve

#61

Not only random times of buff appearances but also random locations either over the entire map or within a certain area, would help, as actually having to FIND the buff makes the game less about speed and more about wits: how will you locate the buff before the enemy/defend or take the buff if the enemy thinks they found where it could be b4 u. For a good example check out LoLs plants (i can give a link if needed)

I also agree that the game kinda failed to encourage monsters to engage hunters early, this could solved by letting the monster gain additional Exp fight fighting/ eating hunters, or letting the monster take pot shots at the generator at stage 2. Maybe they could add in an additional mechanic called Adaptive Armor: basically for each fight a monster gets into they gain a percent of an empty extra bar of Armor. The mechanic is set up so it grants a higher percent of extra armor bars at lv1, and reduces at lv 2 and at lv 3 it’s 0. The idea is to encourage monsters to fight hunters to invest in thier lv 3 strength rather than just wait. (Kinda indirectly based of LoLs dragons)

In terms of monsters I feel u on some monsters having 2 many skill shots and that making them weaker and also in a sense less monster like especially for Behemoth. Perhaps they could just make some of thier skill shots into point blank AoE abilities, either Lava Bomb or Rupture could become one, if u wanted to keep changes to minimum…or they could change Tongue grab or Rock wall drastically or into entirely diff abilities…or they could make Lava Bomb Launch Bob across the map (jk).

In terms of Kraken, Vortex could become a point blank AoE ability, and maybe Lighting Strike could slow, additionally his flight should be more windowed and his ranged basic attacks shouldn’t deal more damage than his melee basic attacks.

I think Wraith as an assassin type of monster who is all about skill, I think it’s ok that she has more skill shots as long as they are dealing more damage, she’s just req more skill


#62

Give hungers more ways to get around?
Like mushrooms to jump on to gain height (That a monster could crush by walking on it, which after a short period of time it would grow back)?

Or diagnol vines they could slide/grapple down, or across gaps?


#63

I think ur ideas for encouraging the monster to fight hunters has the right spirit but it’s 2 specific and complex, it would be difficult to code and balance, I think it also fosters a toxic, feast or famine game play. The buffs from hungers should be more general, and fighting/ eating regular wildlife should just go give Ex/ armor.

But I do like your idea fighting hunters should grant EXP, and it should grant MORE than wildlife.


#64

I might be late to this post a tad but whatever.

In short Evolve was pretty much fun as it was in general.

Yes there are some balance issues here and there and to be honest it’s 4am and I don’t feel like getting into every single detail about the problems that were there and it’s not like it’s anything nobody hasn’t heard before hand anyway.

Granted I still have a general disgust for the direction that Wraith was taken from the start of the game towards the, pretty much, end of the lifespan of the game. I was perfectly fine with her being “fast as fuck boooiiii” but just make her have even less Health or whatever. I dunno, again it’s late as fuck.

But really to put all of this in its simplest form just take what was Stage 2 and make that the “Training/Casual” version of Evolve. A game where Hunters don’t have to rely on Trapper NOT being a total tool and not trapping the Monster, where things are easy to see, understand and get a general grip on the game as a whole.

Then take what was Legacy Evolve and make it the “Hardcore” version of the game. More foliage, more wildlife, more on the emphasis of stealth and so on. Aside from a few balance issues the original game was the best and “rawest” form of the game. Then after awhile it just kinda started loosing that feeling because this that and the other was OP (which to be fair is exactly what happened).

I mean look at what happened to the Wraith. She got potatoed so hard it wasn’t even funny and nobody was satisfied with what happened to her after her first (nuclear powered) nerf. Meanwhile the Kraken, which was the real issue that only became apparent once the Wraith was removed from its popular position, became more of an issue than the Wraith ever was when it came to decent Monster players. Don’t even get me started on what is still an ongoing issue that is Elder Kraken on Console…

I could go on for ages with things but it’s not really worth it for me at this point and it doesn’t do much for anyone else. Where you guys were going with Stage 2 WAS a good idea but it should have been the FIRST idea before what is now known as Legacy.

If the game is easy to understand, pick up and play without feeling like a competitive game, AT FIRST that is, then more people will feel inclined to keep playing and learn the game.

Then have the “Hardcore” version only for players that reach a certain point in the “Casual” version. Such as time played, some wins, some character progress or a mix of all three of those.

Back when I played Halo Wars (the first one, haven’t touched the second one) I tried suggesting that they make it to where when you go into Ranked Matches all players must have proof that they have at least SOME understanding of the game by being forced to play the Story first or AT LEAST some of the story with some Skirmish Matches against the AI (and actually win). Of course people were against that idea for one silly reason or another but the concept here is also the same even if the games are totally different.

Sure it might be kinda unfair for new people that want to get into the thick of things in PvP but lets be honest… it does completely RUIN the experience for the people that happen to be on Timmy’s Team when Timmy don’t know a damn thing about what the hell he is doing and Timmy is going to have a bad time anyway when he gets roflstomped by the enemy and his teammates start telling him how trash he is at the game that he literally only picked up five minutes prior.

I don’t want a medic that thinks they are a Sniper, I don’t want a teammate trying to revive someone with the basic Revive when I’m Lazarus, I don’t want a Lazarus reviving me with the basic revive (like are you kidding me? Lazarus shouldn’t even have that option when his glove is not on cooldown!) I don’t want a Support that only supports himself, I don’t need a CoD player as Assault doing things on his own and wondering why he’s not winning, I need the trapper to actually trap things…

I am sure you see my point here…

There is that small sacrifice that forces the newer players to actually LEARN the damn game or you can punish the other players who know the game by being burdened with the new player that doesn’t know how to do anything.

Make new people learn or punish your fans…

That is the simplest way to look at it I guess.

If people knew how to play the damn game from the beginning people might not have jumped on the bandwagon that was “Nerf the Wraith!” while Kraken was sitting in the back laughing because he was the real issue that everyone overlooked because the first thread that ever came out in terms of Monsters being OP was most likely Wraith and everyone just saw “Wraith OP” and so all the Monsters went Wraith and that’s all that anyone saw. Then all the new players lost to Wraith, saw the Wraith OP threads, jumped on that wagon and went to town. Then they started using Wraith and yadda yadda just… ugh…

I’m so tired… I didn’t want to have this go on for as long as it did.

You see my view… there it is… I might add more but there’s not much I feel up to doing in terms of adding. Talking about Evolve just hurts now because of what it could have been… what it should have been…

Just whatever it is you’re doing, if it’s more or less an Evolve(ish) back up, do the smart thing… give both sides of the community what it wants in two different versions instead of trying to splice it all together.
Give the casuals (not meaning it in an offensive term) their version of Stage 2 and give the vets/pros their version of Legacy.

Trying to make it work for both in one single version of the game didn’t work out well, don’t repeat it please.


#65

No, I think TRS did a pretty good job at that in Stage 2. You could get free evolution bars for damaging Hunters. On some maps, this was integral to getting enough meter to Evolve as soon as possible.


#66

I feel it would do the opposite. The whole feast/famine is precisely why it is best to play out like this. It would diminish ‘eat just wildlife’ playstyles and so forth and instead focus more on small meaningful engagements instead of all or nothing. You could even make it so that you get bonuses for alternating or even temporary small buffs from eating a few special wildlife and then engage.

The main mechanic behind the ‘one dome and done’ that was so prevalent was because of the whole wipe the other team. There are many different conditions that could be changed/modified so that a single engagement doesn’t dictate the course of the whole game. One such, for instance, would be to have damage be less ‘swingy’ and instead of strikes and downs, have it so that if you do X amount of damage abilities would be weaker on either side for the final confrontation.

It would allow more for a string of brawls as opposed to a quick fight that results in people dead and waiting as well. All of these things add up and then transitions over to the ‘final arena’ area where the final brawl would erupt.

On top of this you could put things into place that would prevent people from ‘playing with their food’ due to the score mechanics. In general, you’ll never really get over people wanting to do that, but you can create enough stuff that discourages it since you can never eliminate human beings from being butt heads.


#67

I think what OP responded with, that being more parkour-like options, would work better; though interactive objects like vines wouldn’t be too out of place.


#68

OK! I finally have some time, better late than never.

First, ya’ll rock. The Evolve community is the best community I’ve ever been a part of. I’ll miss Evolve but I’m glad to see TRS is hiring for a new shooter!

Questions:

What aspects of the core gameplay of Evolve could have been changed in your opinion?

I liked the core loop, both Legacy and Stage 2. I’d have liked to look at the pacing more, Legacy felt too slow at times (especially with hiding monsters) and Stage 2 felt too fast, just run run run run run for both hunters and monster. I feel there might be a middle ground somewhere, maybe making Stealth harder to execute, louder monsters, warp portals on larger maps to cover distances.

Movement; how do you think Hunters & Monsters should get around?

This is a tough one. The higher movement is, the quicker the TTK needs to be. High movement, long TTK can be frustrating and inaccessible for newer players.

Skill-floor; How do you think the game can be made more accessible to new players while still retaining the high skill ceiling the original game had?

Accessibility is key for F2P. Being accessible isn’t a bad thing. I was down with Stage 2 and understand why it had to happen. They made the right call addressing Stealth mechanics like Wraith/Hunter Cloaks. Stealth is almost always OP or UP in games and is a frequent point of frustration. Same goes with fast movement that covers large ground with little to no tracers/tells. I’d have liked to see some version where these things + pacing were addressed, without some of the other balance changes.

Environments; Which was superior in terms of level design, Stage 2 or Legacy?

Legacy had better atmosphere, the dark lighting etc. Stage 2 was more practical. Give me Legacy maps with some of the de-clutter and route adjusments from Stage 2, but keep the darker atmosphere and lighting.

Individual Characters; How do you think some of the individual characters could have been balanced and made to differentiate themselves? E.G. Legacy Wraith, how do you think you could get her kit to work well?

Balance was always going to be a tough one, with so many abilities etc. I read Matt’s interview about 4v1 balance struggles and saw a bunch of comments in the comment section claiming “BUT DBD DID IT!”. I had a good chuckle. DBD balance is easier because while it is 4v1, the survivors aren’t directly engaging the with the killers often. And really, maybe that formula is something to look at, a compromise between direct engagement and more external mechanisms players can pursue to win.

Specifically, I think Wraith/Stealth in general is tough and as much as I love Kraken I think Flying threw a wrench in the formula. Those mechanics (and many of the other traversals really) made CC a much needed thing. While it is fun as hell to torture a monster with poons, tranqs etc, a mass market isn’t going to be down with a game where you’re stunlocked or CCed all the time.

I think less movement for monsters and less CC for hunters would have been beneficial. I think all monsters needed some sort of flight/gliding or none should have it. I think stealth (as in invis) is a poor mechanic, but am highly in favor of sneaking and being given means with which to sneak.

Power gaps; Can you think of a way to retain the original Stage 2 & 3 power hikes from the early days of Legacy as a monster? What about Hunter Progression (a handicap once the monster stages up to 2 to even things out)?

Stage one NEEDS to be weak, as in, VERY weak. Maybe have high armor + health, bit of egg shell stuck to you or whatever…but VERY low damage. At various points, I was able to just hang out under the dropship and dumpster the hunters at Stage 1. That was bad news for all involved and likely a huge turn-off for new players.

Stage two, should be a fairy even toe to toe, I feel this stage was usually the best balanced throughout the life of the game.

Stage three, monster should be a beast, far stronger…but maybe we could have used some sort of power equalizer here…maybe at stage three the hunters called in a supply drop and got some limited use high explosive RPGs that helped take down the stage 3 monster.

Anyway, that’s just my thoughts. Open ended questions are a bit tough for me, if you have any more specifics I’d be happy to answer. It’s been a while since I played, but man, I’d love to see someone take another stab at the genre.


#69

Oh i forgot about that, well thats good.

On another note while its good for having the Monster want to seek out a few fights, I think there are ways to FURTHER encourage more interaction, because the Monster can still FT3 and missing out on the extra evolution bars may not mean that much to them. I feel like giving the monster some sort of reward if they interact with hunters and punishing them if they don’t get get better results, because currently they are rewarded with a slightly speed up evolution rate, but the punishment (a slower evolution rate) is something that monsters are already used to and thus they will be more willing to bite the bullet and FT3 if they feel like it. (unless they increased the amount of Evolution bars you need to evolve, can u send me a link to a vid or website for more info?)

I have another idea: add Generator Refueling stations around the map like maybe 1-3. These will be small objectives that sit isolated and generally away from the Generator (they could spawn randomly or have preset locations) They can be damaged from lv 1, and the Monster could gain damage against them at lv 2, but at lv 3 they gain impenetrable defenses (punishing the monster for avoiding them until S3). Destroying these Refueling stations weakens the defenses of the Generator, or takes away a some of the Generators HP. This would create senarios where the Monster and the Hunters may want to fight over them.

it strongly encourages the monster to go for them, and punishes them if they dont, they should want to take out AT least ONE, and they shouldn’t take too much time to take down, but enough that if a Hunter realizes whats going on the Monster shouldn’t be able to get away too easily


#70

Alright, I’ve been busy the past coupl’a days. Now for a write up.

@Major_Warrior Good write up. That’s pretty much the same sentiment of a lot of the community, casual or otherwise. This is going to be a Free to Play game at the end of the day, I want it as accessible as possible. Making the two “modes” differ significantly would be undesirable, as it would add more burden on the team (and by extension myself) more to change it out; beyond that, tutorials will be heavily involved in how to learn the game. Paladins did that, and I played it just fine, even if it wasn’t my cup of tea at the end of the day. So yes, it is on the board so you’re not playing with flat out newbs off the bat in a PvP match.

@Shamont (and by extension everyone else who’s responded to him) - A lot of shit to go through here. Suffice to say, I have my own ideas, including keeping RNG in the mix. There will be a number of sub-objectives with randomized spawn points, and give enough time for either party to get their slab of meat from it (AKA buffs & enhancements; as well as map-wide effects) - that is on the agenda. Movement is also going to be a bit smoother, but similar to what it is in Stage 2, just smoother and more refined.

@SuperBadJuJu Thanks for the write up, bud. :slight_smile: I’ll take some bullet points here.

That’ll likely come back to the core mechanics, like @Puggims & @niaccurshi mentioned, a set of sub-objectives that can be set into motion that will give some form of progression to the hunters (E.G. little buffs at its simplest) to level-wide effects to give one side or the other an advantage temporarily or permanently. This shouldn’t detract from the core gameplay if its played right. Think the Evacuation buffs on certain maps, but in real time. A dam brakes, a portion of the level gets flooded and opens up a higher elevation with more food on it for the monster (as an example) or the Hunters block off a portion of the level, denying the monster a section of the map.

Fair. I’ll have to see how it pans out in-game if I want it to work in just the right way. Its less about the Hunters being faster, and more about interaction with the environment, within a reasonable capacity. You shouldn’t be able to pillar hump while clinging to a wall.

I’d also like the jetpack management to be a bit more forgiving to players.

I’ll just have to experiment and see what works. I had an idea about flight to make it more fair as well as some of the balancing with cloaks, especially for an entity the size of a fucking house. Alas, I’ll have to cross the bridge when I get to it; but I have some ideas to make it work. I’ll run it across some people on the team when I start ironing out specifics for characters and levels.

For progression; Agreed, but I’d say Stage 1 should have enough umph to get a down then flee with some health lost against a good team (ideally).


#71

Apologies, but I didn’t read every single post in this thread, so I may just be repeating ideas.

What aspects of the core gameplay of Evolve could have been changed in your opinion?
I think the gameplay control wise was amazing, but some matches went on way too long on legacy while the changes they made to 2.0 to change this (mainly the trapper ability) felt like it dumbed down the game too much. I also disliked how much of an effect a single large npc (tyrants, etc.) could have on a match.

Movement; how do you think Hunters & Monsters should get around?
I think the hunter movement system is amazing and should become the standard for these kinds of games, while i like the idea of every monster moving differently. The fact that some had abilities that had to be mixed in with movement abilities to maximise speed made the skill ceiling a tiny bit higher which is good

Skill-floor; How do you think the game can be made more accessible to new players while still retaining the high skill ceiling the original game had?
Splitting the game into a ranked or casual mode with slightly different rules, the way rainbow six siege does. Maybe only reinforce strict class division in ranked, alter wildlife spawns between modes or change other small details so there is less to learn in your early games.

Environments; Which was superior in terms of level design, Stage 2 or Legacy?
Stage 2

Individual Characters
I think the game should have strict characters each filling a unique roll, but with more customisation than evolve currently, imagine if val and rogue val were combined and in character select you could choose either a single shot, high damage, weakpoint creating rifle or a semi auto rifle with a bigger clip, then either a high hps single target healing beam or a lower hps chain beam, and then either a tranq dart or a poison dart. It wouldnt work with all the characters and their reskins as they currently are, but it wouldve worked if they were balanced with that in mind from the start.

Power gaps; Can you think of a way to retain the original Stage 2 & 3 power hikes from the early days of Legacy as a monster? What about Hunter Progression (a handicap once the monster stages up to 2 to even things out)?
Idea 1: On map sites that can be interacted with by hunters to give themselves small buffs, but the monster gets notified and can interfere with the activation of these (power system to activate small turrets around final objective, leftover salveron substations where you can activate low health regeneration after a short chemical synthesis period, etc.)
Idea 2: The way hunters get buffs from dead elite wildlife, let them get heavy permanent buffs from leftover monster cocoons if they can find them.
Idea 3: (which sucks) Restrict time somehow if the monster reaches level 3, then the game becomes more about surviving against a horrifying beast than fighting it. I do think this would require a bit of a change to actual victory conditions for the monster


#72

How much longer are u gonna keep reading comments on, here? need to know so i can kno how long i have to read thru, and finish up commenting myself


#73

I suppose tho no matter how much you try you can’t help it if a player is a complete potato or not…
You can only do what you can to enforce the idea of “Play your role!”

I’m sure there’s a “PTFO” somewhere in there…


#74

I think grappling hooks would be a bit strong if all the hunters had it, but if only a few had it I think it would be ok, besides the grappling hook would be used basically for the same thing as a jetpack dash right?


#75

Less runny walky
More tracky tacky
Less sexy monsters
More scary barry
More mappy trappy
More frendy bendy
Less perky berky

"too mucho to reado

To put it simply, make ut more about tactically tracking a monster, maybe get some interchangeable gadgets for each character.

Monsters are scary but there is no map that looks like its territory, climat and the feeling of your surroundings are what sets a good mood.

The hunters should be only able to rely on eachother, while the monster can rely on itself and its surroundings.

One if the big flaws I had was the pwrk system.
There were too many to manage correctly on every character.


#76

Sorta. Have you played Titanfall 2? Has a lot of neat moves you can do if skilled, like swinging around corners. Using it to accelerate jumps and what not.

Check out some grapplehook gameplay on YouTube. You’ll see what I mean.


#77

So get rid of hunter down penalties? Ok I ESPECIALLY like the idea of Hunters trying to weaken the monster or strengthen the generator. And to be honest Canonically your completely right. The Monsters don’t care one single bit about the Hunters, they are just obstacles until the Monster is strong enough to take out the Generator.

You’d probably like this idea

I also like your idea that Hunters should also grow in strength a bit. Do u think Monster weakpoints should still exist? Like Behemoth’s stomach area?

I however dont agree with the notion that the game doesn’t need a tutorial. Everygame needs a tutorial to explain the rules, and how things work, thats the mark of a game developer who cares.There are very few games of ANY type that exist that don’t have a tutorial when its as well designed and complex as Evolve. Too much stuff can happen too fast for tooltips to be enough.

This is why wildlife and buff should spawn in more random locations on the map


#78

I get what ur saying, I stand by my point in that if ALL the hunter’s had it it would be too much. Its better and more interesting for Evolve if only a few Hunters have it.


#79

I was thinking maybe make it a perk that would replace the jetpack. Give it a decent cool down so its not spammable


#80

why’d they get rid of tyrant again?