Solution to balance Claw series on Monsters

The damage increase perks are rarely worth taking simply because they lower the monster’s total damage potential, which claws don’t while providing 120 damage in the course of 3 seconds, on top of that they stack with all elite buffs.

The solution to this? Do the same that you did to the damage perks, introduce a downsight. First of all I’d buff the claws to what they were before the nerf and then I’d add a general damage decrease to them.

I mean it’s basically free damage for left-clicking, why should damage perks have a disadvantage to them but 120 free damage every 3 seconds have none?

I don’t see another way to “balance” the claw perks without them either ending up too strong or too weak.

Damage increase perks are less overall, but more burst, so no I don’t think they are worthless. Also, claws aren’t good for all monsters either.

4 Likes

What @MaddCow said. I don’t like or take the evolved claw series because it doesn’t offer up-front burst which is what I’m looking for/need when I’m fighting hunters.

If you can time your abilities and do them right, you end up with more up-front damage and you’re guaranteed a down sooner if you’re effective at landing them.

If there were 2 new perks-

1, You no longer have consistent melees, but instead once every 10 seconds you get a melee that does 1000 damage

2, Your melees do 0 base damage, but apply a short duration dot that does 110 dps.

I know which one id take.

Damage over time is nice, but burst is a different animal. Always consider context

3 Likes

I never said they are worthless, but in most cases you’re better off taking the claws as they don’t rely on landing your abilities + have no downsights + stack with the damage buff.

Also, let’s say you take damage for gold and cooldown-reduction for silver so you end up with 10% more damage without downsights. Let’s say you land an ability that does 500 damage, the increase from the perk will be 50 damage. With the claws you would have guaranteed 40 damage per second.

Basically you’d end up with 10 damage more over the claw setup while taking the risk of your abilities being dodged. Another downside is that cooldown-reduction buffs nor damage buffs are gonna do anything for you.

Yeah burst is nice and all but currently even with a burst setup you’re not doing enough damage to justify taking those perks imo (unless you take both damage perks, at which point your abilities take twice as long to recharge).

Are you guys saying 2x Claw perks are to strong overall

or

are you guys saying 2x Claw perks are just better then any other perks in the game for more or less melee oriented monsters

also

keep in mind devs already said they will buff other medics to the “Slim levels” LOL

I don’t think claw perks are op on all monster. They are stong only on Goliaths. And its not like its auto win when you pick 2 x claw.

But let’s be real here untill there is Slim/Hank or Slim/Sunny you need every bit of damage to burst throu.

And it isn’t easy job even for OG Goliath with 2x Claws. DI perks for monster are garbage but hey that’s only my opinion.

Leave the claw perks untill medics are buffed, goliaths get their pasivess ect.

Also I don’t rly care that much about Claw perks anymore… most of the time on my OG Goliath runs (not only Orbitall Drill) I run Hunger/Silver Climbing/Grounder or Gold Claw. I find that set up more effective against blind picks and harpoon clown fiesta bugs…

I’m saying that there is no reason to pick other damage perks over claws (see my previous post) except of on monsters that can’t reliably land their melees, which is only Bob and Gorgon. The way I see it those perks need a downsight so they stop being such a no-brainer pick.

What about OG Kraken?

I, for the world, would never pick double poison perks on him. Especially when the Hunter I’m focusing is smart enough to go around a pillar OR stay out of my LoS a bit (so I have to waste my traversals chasing him)

Nah, I prefer to go DR - Double CDR as that will have more burst (almost same perks you would give Behemoth or a Gorgon)

Personally, I prefer double Cooldown Reduction more than double claws. Especially when there is a Cabot involved. All it takes is not to be able to get a down fast enough to pay a heavy price with little reward.

1 Like

Cooldown reduction =|= Damage perks

Cooldown reduction provides more damage if you can actually land abilities so it sort of rewards skill, which claws don’t.
I don’t really wanna argue about what the best perks for which monsters are since that’s a lot about personal preference, but there is barely any reason to pick the damage perks that were released a couple of weeks ago over claws.

Speaking of Kraken though, ever tried running full poison on him? You can basically kill people only with snowballs + vortex, it’s super boring obviously but kinda disgusting that it works.

I’m having trouble finding belief in that.

Although, I can understand what you mean with the damage perks being used less as poison perks are more interesting. Yet, like others have mentioned, it is mostly used by the Brawler monsters (being both Goliaths and Elder Kraken).

However, I would prefer to choose the damage increase perks for Wraith (if anything) who definitely needs the instant burst damage as she can’t stay in a (dome) fight long enough for a Hunter to get down due to poison.

I can’t agree with that reasoning man…

There will always be “best build” even if you nerf Claw perks.

If you wan’t people to stop autopick 2 x Claw … you need to give them other choice not force them to pick “anything” else cuz 2 x Claw after nerf are worthless like DI perks.

The true problem IMO is that there are no other good perk choices for monster.

Maps are too small, way too few feeding routes, planet scanner is a thing so noone goes for more feeding speed / speed / smell build ect. to get clean Stage 2. Those perks just does not help with anything…

For Gorgon / Elder you need DR pretty much.

Like I’ve said I think we should wait for monster passives, buff to medics ect.

We need more fun content not less. Nerfing stuff right now is bad idea…

People always talk about burst but imo fail to realise that claw perks provide just that, purely for left-clicking. Let’s take a Wraith cycle of 3 abilities:

-Abduction 500
-Warp Blast 550
-Supernova 900

That’s a total of 1950 damage that you will do in the course of +7 seconds if you don’t wait between abilities (just tested it).

-10% more damage would give you a bonus of 195 damage (damage perk + cooldown-reduction perk).
-17% more damage (both damage perks, 40% longer cooldowns) would give you a bonus of 332 damage.
-In the course of 7 seconds double claws would already give you a bonus of 280 damage, 2 seconds more and it would already be at 360, topping the setup with both damage perks while having no penalty to cooldowns.

@psychoBob

I kinda get the feeling that we aren’t on the same page.

I already said that directly nerfing claws is pointless as they will be stopped being used altogether, imo they need to remain strong but there needs to be a trade-off just as with the other perks that directly boost damage output.

How about slower melee speed for the trade off?

That wouldn’t help, tbh. When I use claws, I just melee in between every ability, so I and players like me would be largely unaffected

Ok then we agree on that nerfing is pointless.

But I’m not sure if its needed to have a trade-off on Claw perks. Your limiting yourself already by spending 2 perks on it.

With Slim Hank, Sunny still around I just cannot see it being fair.

I rather see other perks buffed a bit. DI should outburst Claw perks in like 10 s single rotation but overall DPS of DI perks should be lover over 20 s.

If I was to chose a trade-off for Claw Perks I would go for:

  1. splinting their total 40 dmg/s into 3 perks instead of 2.
    or
  2. DOT and -%climbing speed
    or
  3. DOT and -%movement speed

so you would have golden claw perk for example:
25 dmg per s for 4 s; 30% slower climbing speed

But to be honest I don’t think its wise to change anything until they buff medics and give passive to both Goliaths.

DEVS know (I hope they have vision of something) how they want this game to look like and I don’t like balancing stuff out without a proper context to the future changes.

We don’t know if they plan for example to buff other medics to current Slim power level or maybe even above. Then those silly changes might get obsolete cuz new meta will be antihealing perks or cdr or something else…

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. Medics, passives, nothing of that has to do with the fact that claws are stronger than the damage perks in pretty much every way, even in terms of burst damage (which was supposed to be the selling point of those perks). Buffs to medics and new passives wont fix the unbalance between those perks.

Honestly it’s a lot like the claws vs. healing reduction situation, claws are simply better in pretty much every scenario as they don’t have a downsight to them.

The devs are trying to encourage people to use other perks than claws by releasing new perks, but the new perks simply can’t outperform the claws due to their design.

Yeah man I get what you are saying. I don’t think you see my point thou.

Just in theory. What will happen when medics get buff to the point where Claws are useless for any reason? Just in theory. Anti-healing perks will take place of 2 x Claw. Then Claw perks will stop being strong and our eyes turn on anti-healing being OP. And then we circle back to same stuff :smiley:

Yeah but that’s bad design of other perks, game mechanics ect. You can nerf (give a trade-off, whatever) to Poison perks but people will always chose min/maxed builds.

You cannot change that by making Claw perks having trade off.

Even if Claw perks would have a trade off IF they would still be best choice, people would still pick them. It’s simple as that imo.

Why nerf something when you can buff something else and have more then one viable,strong and fun choices?

Want to have variety give players real choice!

We should look at the reason why other perks are not used and not only why Claws are somewhat auto-pick.

Like I’ve said many times. Game is too scripted. The are no reasons to go full feeding speed cuz hunter will catch you most of the time before you get to stage 2 and you need some strikes before you hit stage 3. That’s why fast staging up using feeding speed is bad choice. You see that is the reason noone pick other perks. Cuz they are not WORTH IT.

TL:DR If there were other solid perks + tactics to use some people would pick those but for the most part people will always go for the min/max builds especially in competitive games. That’s why I think giving downsides to perks that are strong but not game breaking is pointless. If those perks after they recive downsides are still strongest people will still pick those and were back to square one. Which is ONE PERK TO RULE THEM ALL…

Won’t happen. Slim currently has the highest healing output and the anti-healing perks don’t even make sense against him.[quote=“psychoBob, post:17, topic:105740”]
Yeah but that’s bad design of other perks, game mechanics ect. You can nerf (give a trade-off, whatever) to Poison perks but people will always chose min/maxed builds.

You cannot change that by making Claw perks having trade off.
[/quote]
Bad design of other perks? I don’t agree in the slightest. In my view it’s the claw series that is designed badly, not every other perk. I also don’t see what this has to do with min/max builds, claws are better in every way, no need to min/max anything to see that.

"Do I take 17% damage at the cost of double cooldowns, or do I take the same damage in form of poison without any other drawbacks?"
Duh.

Cause it’s the claws that are too strong and not the other perks that are too weak.

Has nothing to do with the topic?

Min/max-ing has literally nothing to do with the fact that one perk set is clearly superior in every possible way than another perk set. It’s basically doing the exact same thing but better, that’s a balance issue.

I’m specifically talking about the perkset while you are bringing in many other topics that in my eyes don’t have much to do with the initial issue. In other words, we simply aren’t on the same page. So let’s drop this discussion here (no offense).

We’re on the same page man.

I agree with your thoughts about perks.

Just don’t agree on the solution.