Slim's Dilemma - Feast or Famine


#1

Slim has seen a huge jump in popularity since his most recent buff, to the point where every game of 2.0 I play has him, and most games I watch via twitch.

One of the problems with Slim is it often feels like the game is decided in character select with him - he’s devastating against poor Bob and MG, great against OG, EKraken, and Gorgon, and pretty bad against Kraken and Wraith.

Him being a counter can be good for tournament play, but it’s bad for blindpick - super strong counters seem to be something TRS has tried to cut back on, like when Markov would wreck Kraken’s mines. I’m guessing the reasoning for this is just simply that all characters ought to be at least sorta viable against all characters, and while one could argue Bob is “sorta viable” against Slim, it really doesn’t feel like a fair matchup. Same with Kraken and Slim, just in the opposite direction.

His automatic shotgun works the same as Abe’s - shoot a lot, spread goes higher, time your shots, less spread. Against Bob, spread doesn’t matter; he’s way too big for you to miss. Against Kraken, far away in the sky, spread matters a lot; Slim players either have to spam and hope or time their shots, and eother way lose a ridiculous amount of healing potential.

I figure there’s two ways to deal with this - change the way he heals, or change the way his shotgun works.

On the one hand, you could reduce the cooldown of his healburst and make leeches worth less. This would blur the lines between good Slims and great Slims, and lower his skill ceiling, which I know a lot of people generally don’t like. But it would very much normalize his strength versus different characters and make him more consistent.

Another way would be to reduce the spread on his shotgun, making him more likely to hit harder targets consistently while not really changing how he is against easy targets all that much. Maybe reduce overall healing or make the leeches worth less to compensate.

Anyways, that’s my thoughts. I’m not a huge Slim player, but I hate going for him and seeing a Kraken in my game; and I hate choosing Goliath or Bob and seeing him on the other side. I just want him to be more middle ground, and less bell-curve-y.

TL;DR Slim good against fat Monsters, bad against skinny ones.


#2

I agree. The only thing else I would say if they made him more accurate at range would be to decrease damage as well to compensate for increased chance of multi head shots/weak spots hits constantly.


#3
  1. Slim is the contributing reason as to why Kraken reigns supreme.

  2. Slim is grossly overpowered.


#4

Can you explain that one?


#5

Many people roll Slim right now, Kraken is the anti-Slim.


#6

That’s what I figure, and I know it contributes a little, but Kraken was super popular waaayyy before Slim was strong and he’ll be popular after, likely.


#7

I don’t feel Slim is OP (but I may be slightly biased. I’ve been using him forever) but I do think it’s FAR too easy to maximize his healing output on a regular basis, given how strong it can be. If he required more skill to play or he wasn’t as quick with it, he’d be a ton better.

But that’s just me.


#8

Also don’t you dare let a slim use reload with elite cooldown perk. You won’t make any progress.


#9

If you have a medic that is so disgustingly overpowered towards roughly 4 of the 7 Monsters then that will lead people away from those four; those four being:

  • Goliath
  • Meteor Goliath
  • Elder Kraken
  • Behemoth

Then after those four are ruled out because you have a 1 in 6 chance of fighting an overpowered, unfun PoS medic then you rule it down to the Monsters that have the best chance against him. The three remaining are:

  • Kraken
  • Wraith
  • Gorgon

Gorgon is largely considered UP in the current build so that leaves Wraith and Kraken, then it comes down to power; which Monster of those two are clearly considered by 90% of the community to be stronger.

  • Kraken

So if four Monsters are completely destroyed by one medic, then one is mostly considered UP the remaining two come down to power where one is widely believed to be much better than the other. Not to mention Kraken has the flight advantage so he has the easiest time dodging pellets and leaving spores.

Now if you say that the first four Monsters shouldn’t be ruled out the way I ruled them out because “People will still play how they want to play.” Well all I have to say is this; if you knew as a Monster you would face a Sunny + Griffin + Val pre-nerf would you not run movement speed? Additionally, what do you primarily see in ranked? Krakens, because people will always choose the character that gives them the best shot at victory.


#10

I mean, I know Slim isn’t helping anything, but Kraken is popular mostly because Kraken.

That being said, like I said in OP, I’d like to sorta make him stronger against Kraken and weaker against the others. Though, since Kraken is always popular, maybe with Slim viable against him Slim would be even more popular…


#11

Kraken is so popular because of how strong most hunters are currently. He has an easier time dealing with the likes of Wasteland Maggie, Slim… Parnell’s shotgun is fairly useless against him, Hyde isn’t very consistent and Torvald’s mortars require special attention against a Kraken. Having said that, most people play Assault as if it were a Support character, and pick Hank instead to play Assault; he’s got more accuracy, has nearly the same damage output and he’s able to shield his team.

So the only reason why Kraken is so popular is because it’s easier to control the battlefield, and it’s less stressful because you need to focus less on the Assault; or in this case the Assault playing Support.


#12

No. I’ve taken over two months break because of Slim and the lack of updates to fix his broken @$$.

I swear if he gets more buffs I’m just quitting forever.

What Slim NEEDS is…

:warning: ***STRONG LANGUAGE*** :warning:

an effective "FUN", AND FAIR ability to replace Spores. He needs an ability that will help his survival and NOT rely on the person but their skill level. Spores are unfun garbage that literally cannot be countered as they rely on the person’s ability to see, not their skill. This ups his fairness, makes him infinitely less infuriating, and will objectively make him better.

After that his heals need desperately looking at because he I’ve had Slims that can’t heal for shit but I’ve also had Slims that with a little help from a Hank become immortal Gods. Literally sitting in Death Spirals, while being juggled and shot with banshee missiles yet there still sitting there spamming heals like no tomorrow.


Slim is easily the most unfun and unbalanced medic there is in every aspect of the word and until he is fixed my utter rage will not be quenched. Especially since he’s still this B.S yet Wraith was nerfed at the single utterance of her strength.

God damn Hunter favored meta and it’s double standards. Monsters can be completely f$%king rewritten and have COMPLETE ability reworks but Hunters will NEVER get that same treatment no matter if they need it worse than ANY F@%KING MONSTER. Seriously, HOW IS IT OK THAT WRAITH GETS NERFED AND COMPLETELY CHANGED YET SLIM STAYS UNTOUCHABLE, NOT A SINGLE SPORE FIX. DOUBLE STANDARDS AND HUNTER FAVORED META.

I’m starting to understand why I’m taking over two months worth of break from Evolve.

Gosh, sorry about that. Kinda got off track with that. Anyways… yeah, I’m just gonna… yeah.
Do yourself a favor and don’t click that if you’re sensitive to strong language and rants.


#13

I support this. It makes sense.

Counters are what makes and breaks matches in this game most of the time, which is no fun at all.


#14

Counters are a very necessary evil.


#15

They’re not, and they shouldn’t be. Counters in this game are stupid. They make sense in something like a MOBA, where it’s two equal teams that can counter and re-counter, but they shouldn’t have a place in a competitive scene for Evolve where 1 medic pick can decide the game before it even begins (hyperbole, but not too much so - it really is that big a factor).

Slim should be decent against every monster instead of amazing against some and terrible against others.


#16

Slim has no problems with most Monsters, even a Wraith can get a hard time when its a harpoon spamming trapper as its so difficult to break it even if i aim at it. I got soo often stuck in harpoons needing 2 hits to break free with in rare cases even 3… slim eats the hell out of you.
And you see wlm or maggie that often…that Wraith got some problems which i dont have with any other Monster against their harpoons.


#17

How?
I mean they provide a constantly changing meta, or atleast are supposed to, but when a game can be decided solely on the picks, it can be frustrating.


#18

What you’re looking for is “perfect balance”. That is absolutely terrible. It completely negates all facts on how characters play and their overall effectiveness. It makes the game into a pick this guy because he looks different game, making the characters purely cosmetic. There’d be no reason for me to play anyone but Crow. He’s as good against every Monster as everyone else, so why play anyone else? That system doesn’t work.


#19

In some cases, yes they should.

That’s what Evolve is.[quote=“KaptinSkorge, post:15, topic:85325”]
1 medic pick can decide the game before it even begins (hyperbole, but not too much so - it really is that big a factor).
[/quote]

This is something that shouldn’t exist. This isn’t even a counter, this is just bad design.

Slim is not in a good place and he never will be until, I hate to say it but:

The Devs admit that they f$%ked up in deciding that visual disorientation is okay and that allowing a medic to deal out Assault level damage while also providing mass heals is also shit design. Slim needs a flat out rework, period, end of story. His spores are too effective or too ineffective depending on the Monster and player and his heals are the same. He’s amazing or terrible, he’s not consistent and so he is godlike or worse than dog poop. TRS just needs to admit they f%#ked up and that they’ll fix it. He’ll never be “good” until that happens.


Certain cases for example, Cabot counters rockwall + relay. Rockwall counters the Val sniping relay from 100m out, Daisy counters FT3 Monsters, etcetera.

It’s a necessary evil. As @Shunty said, without differences like counters the game becomes "Well who do I like cosmetically."
Some Hunters need to do better, some worse, all decent in the long run, all good at their own jobs.

This isn’t something I’d consider a counter, just poor balance/design.


#20

I entirely disagree. If Val and Slim are both decent against every monster, and both decent in and of themselves, then I would pick based on which I played better as and which one my team played better as.

Some teams pull off offensive comps very well, so they’ll run Cabot/Slim or Cabot/RV. I generally like defensive comps more, so I’m more likely to take Hank/Slim or Sunny/Val. Even if they’re equally effective, it then comes down to which ones I like more and which ones I’m more comfortable on. It then comes down to the player playing better or worse as character one or two, instead of the player being forced to pick a certain character because they are inherently better.