Slim and Cabot, improved damage amp, perfect synergy


#1

TL;DR, check the quote box :slight_smile:

We all know what Cabot does, he can tag monsters so everyone can get more hits in because the monster is easier to hit, he is one of the best to interrupt monsters while eating. Not to forget the cloak as a useful way to protect yourself or others. And of course, his damage amp to get monsters down quicker before they wreck the team.

Slim can heal any teammate who isn’t being attacked from the other side of the map. In combat he is reduced to shotgun range and healing completely based on how many pellets hit the monster. This healing has a pretty long range and recharges faster with every connected hit. The closer you are to the monster, the faster it will recharge. His spore cloud removes the smell ability for monsters who stand in it creating small moments of utility where people can get away, and the monster does less total damage.


The problem is that they don’t compliment each other at all. Slim isn’t very good at focus healing and he needs a shield to keep people safe when he cannot heal. He leaches the health from the monster that is transferred into health. His actual mechanic is only based on how many pellets ‘hit’ the monster. Each pellet giving back more regeneration for the heal. Looking at the programming, damage =/= health leached.

Slim say’s something like ‘more damage, more healing’. This is correct for HIM, but when Cabot amps the monster, nothing really special happens. His healing is still the same…

Because Cabot doesn’t have a shield, but an AMP for more damage, he cannot help Slim with focus damage from the monster. They aren’t a very good match together. And because Cabot as support ONLY helps with doing extra damage he basically is a half assed support.

So…

I thought, why can we not implement a mechanic for the damage amp that only helps Slim’s healing as a medic? When active, the leech gun does more damage returning more regen as well. That as long as the AMP is up, Slim can recharge his heals faster, actually doing more healing so he can focus heal better.

This means that Cabot can actually function as ‘actual support’ combined with Slim, making them a good pick as well. Now it’s just asking for a wipe.


There are however a few points that need to be thought of…

  • The healing burst recharge cannot be 200% while the amp is up. Something like 150% is much more balanced and still more than strong enough.
  • Slim with his current damage output will be too strong for this mechanic to work (too low damage). If no one is shooting, Cabot and Slim can keep the team alive for way to long. His shots need to drain the AMP a little quicker as well.

This is correct to the theoretical mechanics of the gun. Giving him more healing with more damage. It will improve the Cabot + Slim synergy enough so they are balanced together. It also creates tense moments where the AMP either needs to be used for damage, healing or both.

It will not fix Slim with the others though, he still needs some tweaks. But this might actually make him more viable in a combo that doesn’t have any shields.


#2

Would like to see Cabot used as support again. Mostly seeing Hank and a bit of sunny these days


#3

Think Bucket works best with Slim. Turrets apply pressure on top of smell being taken away. Turrets provide a safe haven for Slim to sit in.


#4

Maybe in skirmish yes, but Slim becomes too much of a target. It will help to do extra damage, but the second the monster decides to fully focus Slim, there is no one in the team that can do anything about it. At least, not with Bucket. And good monsters will abuse the shit out of this. A wraith with hit and run tactics doesn’t get bothered by Bucket that much. Go in, kill Slim, repeat till he has enough strikes to die instantly and GG it won you the game.

The only way to fix this is so that everyone takes health regen, the same way as playing with Lazarus. That when Slim does go down, the rest can stay alive long enough.


#5

I disagree, many people underestimate Bucket because he is never played, and when he is people play him poorly. If Slim starts getting focused (which shouldn’t happen with spore cloud and turrets as the amount of damage the monster will be eating is huge (a goliath’s armor can go down in seconds)) then Bucket can go in, and give him a cloak. Combat cloaks are extremely strong (especially since most Goliaths use flame breath for damage, and not utility) and save VIPs more than most people give credit. Not to mention cloaking in a turret field will almost always make the monster run away.


#6

Wraiths get their ass kicked by bucket. If he can set up his turrets so that when the wraith fights it is fighting surrounded by his turrets it is gonna get shredded. Turrets never lose track of the monster no matter how much its warping around.


#7

We could try to give it a go, but against the monster we play… Knowing their attack plan against certain team comps… I don’t have high hopes for it. They strike quick with high burst damage. Even if you manage to safe Slim with a good cloak, those monsters will absolutely stomp the others. The second you reveal yourself they are going to focus you next because you wasted a cloak. Then the burst damage against others Slim cannot outheal, trappers go down faster than flies. Can’t see it work, but I will give it a try.

Keep in mind, good monsters abuse every moment you give them. No shield, focus, no cloak, focus, etc…

Bucket kinda is an assault with a cloak. We like him with Lazarus because Lazarus has a cloak. Slim has spore cloud and that is a little meh against good monsters. Good for confusing them, but thats it.


#8

Basically how your team should play around Bucket is

  1. If using Slim you should spam spore cloud (quick switch is great for this). This’ll make finding turret nests hard, and will make the monster tilt if he enters a turret nest.
  2. Your assault needs to apply a lot of pressure, but not enough to get themselves killed. The assaults job is to both deal damage, and push the monster toward the turret nest.
  3. If trapper gets focused he needs to fall back into the nest, and call for the cloak if he needs it (cloak comes up extremely quickly, and can be spammed)
  4. If medic gets focused get everyone to switch onto damage (or CC if he’s slightly outside range) while you try to keep the medic in turret range (3+ turrets should be hitting the monster when he is focusing) if the medic needs additional help cloak him.
  5. If anyone gets low tell them to fall back into turret range so Slim can safely put a bug on them.
  6. If they’re going hit and run focus on rockets, but still have a turret field ready for use. Make sure your team saves jetpack, and if anyone gets hit with a high damage skill you need to cloak them especially if the monster looks ready to focus them down.
    To sum it up Bucket is meant to teach you the importance of cloak, and how to maximize its use in combat. Him teaching you how to use cloak doesn’t make him bad, as he is one of the highest damage dealing supports with huge AoD.

#9

It still doesn’t save you from burst damage. Loads of good strategies that we would use as well, but a good monster will strike when you least expect it and then again. And good monsters don’t chase you unless they need to. Them staying in the back is going to be a big problem for both Slim as Bucket.

But let’s stay on topic :slight_smile: Making Cabot a worthy opponent combined with Slim


#10

The issue with Cabot and Slim is Slims burst isn’t based on damage, but rather pellets hit.


#11

Yes I said that :slight_smile: So is it an option include a mechanic where Slim can get more healing burst regen when the AMP is on the monster? It doesn’t last that long and it gives Cabot the opportunity to be an actual support.


#12

It’d be nice to see some synergy, and it’d be cool to get insanely fast healing bursts :stuck_out_tongue: With the next buff being an accuracy buff on Slim this could actually be a viable synergy (if TRS decided they wanted to do this).


#13

I like this idea. This would change a lot…


#14

Atm is Slim just: Don’t focus monster’s head because you will miss a lot of pellets. Focus his body!

That’s a bit tarded… So this idea would make him focus monster’s head aswell.