Reworking Bucket, from bad to really scary


#1

I love bucket I absolutely love playing with him but it always like you are running behind on the facts. He isn’t a great support and his turrets cover too little terrain to be really harmful. A good bucket player will do amazing damage on average monsters, but fighting against good monsters and he becomes obsolete. His skills do not work together at all and he doesn’t find balance between his skills, he isn’t flexible enough. He needs some love, and this time not only 11% on a gun that is still bad.

*Don’t wanna read everything? Just check the Bold Titels and check the first words of the alinea, it should give a hint what it is about. A quick summary will explain the rough edges, for more info you should read the details down below.

TL;DR
UAV tag will allow 2 things making it work together with the other abilities. When the monster is tagged a time frame opens up in which the Turrets get extra range, but do less damage, and the missile launcher gets a lock-on ability. Fixing a few bugs with the UAV ‘tag reset’ and Slim’s spore gun will make this work very simple. This will make a Bucket a more strategy based support with a sharp edge at the right moment.

Cabot once was scary, now they made him a little old lady with a pea shooter. Sunny can be very scary in the right hands, same as Hank. Bucket is not a “real” target. I played him a LOT and we still do Laz + Bucket runs to challenge monsters with good skill to try to beat us with it. It’s really hard for both teams, most monsters leave. But it is exactly how Bucket play’s that make him work for this playstyle. A player goes down and the body becomes bait. Bucket runs in placing turrets near the body and he stay’s between the monster and Lazarus. When the monster looks at Lazarus funny, Lazarus uses his cloak and then the motion of cloak swapping kicks in. Because he is so little of a threat he can run around easy and keep doing this till the monster figures it out. We tried the same with Sunny for example and it just doesn’t work. The shield shields you while in cloak and the Jetpack boost can be as much of a risk as jumping in normally. Problem really is that Sunny is a high priority target so cloak swapping might kill you both.


Reworking The UAV tag “bug” reset
The UAV can be exploited by pressing both buttons W & A, or W & D together (front-sideway). The UAV will fly much faster and even the sound increases in pitch. You lose some sight, but it’s well worth the tradeoff. Good bucket tip though for now <<

This needs a fix, but at the same time we also need a fix for the damn tag. A floating grain of dust will reset the ‘tag’ timer and little to no monster actually juke the UAV itself. This interruption makes it very unreliable if not very annoying. We also need something for climbing walls because the UAV’s maximum height. It makes flying uphill a drag and it shouldn’t be. But this isn’t as important as of yet.

The fix? Make it so it decreases the tag 4 times the speed of the tag itself (the yellow circle thingy). If something breaks the line of sight, it won’t reset, but only decrease progression on the tag. I’ve had moments when I was 300 meters out and the tag reset 3 times after each other and I lost the UAV battery. This should not happen. This solution should fix the problem and still give the monster the option to juke the head (killing it is better though). In any communicating team they already know that the monster is near the head anyway.


Reworking synergy with the UAV
Then as a ‘rework’ feature the UAV needs to work WITH his other skills. In-combat UAV does absolutely NOTHING and Slim’s spore cloud removes the tag directly on a hit (probably a bug). It’s nice to know where the monster is, but its too much of a risk to tag in a dome. And this is bullshit really. Sunny can use every skill she got in a dome and needs them. Hank can use every skill in a dome and needs them. Cabot can use every skill in a dome and kinda needs them (this also makes Cabot a little weak). Bucket, can place semi effective turrets and shoot the monster with ‘crappy’ rockets. His UAV sits and waits till the fight is over.

I say, no more!

So for a better synergy flow with bucket his UAV needs to do something and I’ve thought about this hard without changing his class all too much. His UAV needs to work with both his Rocket Launcher and his Turrets. The UAV is pretty annoying for finding and hunting the monster, but at stage 3 it does nothing really. It’s a time consuming luxury. In combat it’s a HUGE risk to stand still and try to tag the monster, so we need something that makes it worth the risk to boost Buckets performance that little bit every fight. He needs an edge without touching any base values of his abilities.


UAV lock-on laser guided missile-launcher
His rockets because of the laser can make turns and follow the monster if you keep the laser on the monster. This also makes for a great risk because if you want to do damage, you NEED to look at the monster, turn away once and your rockets miss.

Right mouse button at this moment doesn’t do anything for the missile-launcher and it doesn’t work together with a UAV tag. This needs a change.

Reworking this aspect of the missile launcher gives you the option to ‘Lock-on’ with the missile launcher when a UAV tag is active. This makes shooting the Kraken out of the sky much easier and it also removes the forced gameplay that you need to keep aiming at the target while you shoot. Any error will mess you up in the current state of the game. Having a UAV tag combo will give you some breathing room. Those Kraken players that hide in trees can finally be hit now.

This might seem a little overpowered at first, but remember, it’s still the same weapon AND you can actually trick missiles that are locked on. Hide behind an object and they will fly right into it. Blink away, dodge away or leap away and the missiles will miss. It’s risk vs reward giving you a little extra damage overall WITH a UAV tag <<


UAV tag + extra turret range
This discussion is going on for quite a while, but we need something done to the range of the turrets. It’s far too strong to simply boost it by a few meters, but synergy can be very helpful here as well.

To start, leave the turrets as they are now as they are. They aren’t weak and they should not do any more damage than they already do. The problem we have is that they don’t really do much in a bad dome, or that a flying Kraken can avoid them pretty easily.

To combine the UAV with the turrets can make for an amazing improvement in actual support utility. If a UAV tag is on the monster the turrets increase their range by 100% making them insanely powerful range wise. A little too powerful in my opinion, so there needs to be a catch. Beyond the range of 10 meters the accuracy of the turrets decrease by 10-20% giving it a little less damage, but still be very effective when the UAV tag is active. The bigger the monster, the easier it hits. You could also implement that the turrets ONLY shoot the monster when the tag is up and ignore wildlife/minion if the monster is in range.

This combo will mean that the times that the UAV tag is active the turrets do their job a lot more effective. It will give you the option to finally hit those high flying monsters (Wraith, Kraken) and keep doing their job when you are pretty useless anyway.


Why should this be implemented?
Bucket feels a little empty at times. Having that one skill that does nothing in a fight actually DO something makes for amazing risk versus reward scenario’s. All of these moves can be countered by destroying the UAV in the first place, or simply out maneuver them. A “dome tag” is very risky as you are probably wasting a cloak and valuable time. Time it right and Bucket becomes really scary without being super overpowered.

Why is Bucket so bad now? He is so little of a danger that you can practically ignore him when you stay out of his nests. His UAV tag is annoying early game, but his lack of defensive support utility make him pretty bad the more damage the monster can pump out. Support is supposed to bring utility danger to make them a high priority target. Bucket has none of those, he can only make area of denial that is easily avoided and can be ignored for short periods of time.

Giving his “useless” ability actual function, to work together to make his abilities stronger, it becomes much more fun to play him. Fix his UAV so it can actually tag a monster right. Implement these changes to give him much more of an edge. Scale his damage output accordingly and you have your friendly neighborhood robot that can actually do something in a match, and turn the match in his favor when he plans it right.

The catch/problem? Going with abe for example with have some moments when abe can really mess up Bucket’s UAV tag with 1 simple 0,5 second shot from abe. They either need to function separate from each other, or it needs good communication. I vote for the first, but understand if it can’t :slight_smile:


#2

I like these ideas with only one exception. the rocket launcher needs a range fall off. say 40 meters or so. we don’t need a bucket lockon sniper.


#3

I agree, although 40 meters is a bit short. 60 meters is more than enough and it should only apply to the lockon itself. Once the missiles are in the air they go after their target no matter the range. This makes hitting an escaping monster much more viable as well.


#4

I agree with this. You would have to decide on refreshing the uav or dealing a little more damage.


#5

I did realize though that introducing these changes would require the bucket tutorial video’s to be changed as well. It’s not a quick fix to make him better again, but this would improve his gameplay by so much.


#6

I like the idea that tagging a Monster makes all missiles home in on it. How about also letting turrets shoot it withgreater accuracy and greater range? Just a thought.


#7

That pretty much covers that :stuck_out_tongue: You want to keep it balanced and strong at the same time. Greater accuracy is too strong at a longer range. Reducing a little damage at greater range should balance out the extra range you got. Or do I misunderstand?


#8

No, that’s it. I just skimmed and missed that. -_- My bad.

I love all of these ideas.


#9

i would love to see these changes but the devs said they wouldn’t change code. just adjust values. Maybe they could just increase turret range I think that would be most helpful for a bucket player.


#10

actually i was thinking, to make Bucket decent just give him a shield or the a jet pack fuel like sunny, i feel like sunny stole most of Buckets potential skills lol


#11

For balancing patches yes, but at this moment we already got statements that they are going to rework Val’s Healing burst as well to make her more viable for competitive. + we are getting a 5th tier of hunters + monster and to be honest: An update on the current characters would not be bad at all. Even World of Warcraft flips entire classes upsidedown a few times a year. It would give the game a fresh feeling and an opportunity to rework some flaws in classes both hunter and monster. I understand if they don’t but if this game actually aims for competitive play you need to be able to use more than 6-8 out of the 16 hunters.

Truth is, although Bucket does his job… he is worthless in the function of support. Area of denial is amazing against a monster who cannot (doesn’t know how to) counter Lazarus, but a good player can counter this so easy it’s insane. For Bucket to function he needs at least 10-15 seconds in a fight to make a good setup and even then he needs to check if his turrets are still up. You don’t know this if you shoot your rockets. You wanna know how long a pro monster needs to kill a person? 5 seconds max. Bucket cannot help the team defend, he can help punish a monster guarding a downed body, but most pro monsters know how to work around this problem pretty easy.

You can work around his gameplay so easy that he basically is a very annoying damage dealer who can help track a monster early game. A fase where most monsters hide and flee and your turrets do nothing at all. Cheers for having 1 weapon that can do something then… And not very effective at that.

Sunny has SO much synergy it’s insane, almost overpowered compared to the rest. Place your drone, try to do damage if you can and jetpack boost when people get focused. Replace your shield when it is destoyed and cloak when the monster focuses Sunny herself. Don’t forget that she is the ONLY support who can shield herself. She swaps between every skill she has making her very effective. The long item swap is the trade-off. You can’t do all at the same time. Hank has this very same issue. A little less synergy because of the long cooldown on orbital, but the same. Cabot has 2 long cooldowns when used and his gun… A gun that kinda has supportive abilities, but it kinda doesn’t really. It’s good against monsters who hide behind rocks. But we also got Torvald for that as well. Cabot, just like Bucket needs a rework as well. He quite frankly isn’t that good anymore. Once upon a time he actually did amazing damage, now even with the amp he does 2k less damage than I do with bucket sometimes.

Bucket has this ability (UAV) that does nothing really good. Having a “tech” trapper that could use a drone to find monsters would be nice, but they put this ability in a support class. Thats fine, but if that is it, and it does nothing but tag a monster than it isn’t very supportive next to trappers that show outlines or can tag themselves. Next to his brothers and sister support it’s actually pretty minor. It’s situational support, unreliable like his rockets and his turrets.

THIS is why I plead for a rework of some of the characters. Small adjustments that require only a short time to make. A function that makes all three of his abilities work together. Bucket is a machine for god sake, ‘optimization’ is what he does. The tag isn’t there for very long, and taking extra risks to tag a monster, even in a dome makes for really exiting gameplay. I really do wanna experience how it feels getting found by a monster when I UAV. In all the 300 hours I played that hasn’t happened once. Bucket needs to have an edge, now he is just passive damage dealing support with tag. Go take Abe, ignore Bucket and take either Hank or Sunny. More damage, more control, more flexibility.

Bucket is only good to go Lazarus with because of his low priority to take out. I cannot see any other match except those we try to play ‘for funz and lolz’.


#12

Yeah, Bucket needs changes, but I’m not a fan of this idea with his UAV having to synergize with his kit.

The UAV takes a short time to activate, get the UAV in range, take additonal time to tag the monster, on top of that you need to set up turrets and hope the Monster is still in the combat area by the time you get the tag off. It’s not the direction Bucket needs to go.

The UAV needs something but this isn’t it, his whole kit is slow which is why he needs changes, this change doesn’t fix his problems but is more likely to make his kit even slower if players feel compelled to spend all their time setting this strategy up. It’s just complicated and not practical, especially to new players.

If anything the UAV should have something like a function by pressing the ‘4’ key that self destructs the UAV and deals heavy damage and puts it on a lengthy cooldown say around 20-30 seconds.


#13

The idea takes time yes, but perfect timing can give you a tag for over half of the duration of a dome. It can make a fleeing monster take more hits and it can counter a Kraken that is dodge flying all over the map nuking all your team, but you can’t really do anything back. Bucket already is slow in his ways. Time the UAV right and you will have massive advantages with it. If you choose to do this mid-combat, the monster isn’t engaging anyway. In those moments your normal attacks will suffice. It’s to counter those dodgy moves with a counter move really.

Imagine a match where you play Kraken, you lost Bucket from your smell range and suddonly all the turrets on the ground start shooting you again because you got tagged by the UAV mid-dome. It takes some serious balls to do this, and doing this just before a dome is also very good. Bucket jumps in, places his gear and can use the bonus for a little while.

Bucket already does this really, so what does this rework change except make a existing mechanic work better, push the player to use everything at all times. Risk vs Reward.

And then think of monsters who barely even notice the UAV getting a heavy hit in their face just before the dome hits. Not very fair in my book. You can’t counter it that well (think behemoth) and it doesn’t require any skill.


#14

Technically his body is still so there’s your opening but these are just ideas.


#15

The UAV deals

##HEAVY DAMAGE.

I’m sorry. I couldn’t help myself.


#16

I mean his UAV has no use in a fight. I can’t help myself when people say Bucket is viable against skilled Monsters.


#17

I know. I just saw the opportunity for a HEAVY DAMAGE pun.


#18

I feel that all support compared to Hank / Sunny feels lack luster but since this is a Bucket Topic. Yes i agree he feels, weird and bad in most situations.

Defensive support is so much Better than pure offensive / area denial. And I’ve yet to feel that monster “avoid” my turrets when i do place them. Sometimes they work wonders, and sometimes they feel worthless.


#19

Plenty of good ideas, everyone’s favorite robot needs some loving. Maybe make the option for the UAV to have an option to explode for massive damage obviously.


#20

I still think that at high level this is too strong. People will abuse this power too much and there is too little to counter it, if at all. It should mean that the UAV should get a tag like the shield drone just so the monster can destroy it to make it balanced. Because now, in the current system you would get free damage form the UAV. After a dome, you can just UAV, tag the monster and blow up in his face again. The UAV is so fast you cannot get away from it.