Re: Sunny, hunters and the ability for monsters to run away


#1

I played a match last night against Sunny as behemoth with movement speed. First thing I did was get a 100% traversal cool down.

I could not get away from the hunters not just 1 of them both the assault and the trapper were never out of smell range. That’s ridiculous!! Hack maybe, exploit who knows, waaaaay OP. Hell yes it needs to be nurfed. The boost should not be able to constantly out run a monster tanking two running buffs. The only other way to balance this would be a monster buff for stage 1. The monster has to eat and evolve. The hunters hit the map at full strength, the monster doesn’t. The monster is supposed to be able to out run the hunters at stage 1. Now if you wanna rework the monsters to make it a fair fight at stage 1 you’ll get more stage 1 fights. Oh wait, you’re complaining because you don’t want a fair fight, my bad.

The hunters have a significant <key word - advantage to a stage 1 monster. Running and hiding is one of the key survival methods at stage 1. Yes I can pub stomp at stage 1, but a decent team premade or not, you have no chance. How many monster players do you think will stay around if they’re doomed from the start? Take a guess… Now add that there’s no good monsters in the game making playing increasingly more and more boring because it’s too easy… Who’s left? Only people like you who want a guaranteed win in under five minutes as a hunter. My guess about five percent of the playing population of the game. Game dead.

Infringe ranting now. Question:
How would you feel if it were the other way around? Stage 3 monster drops in the map while the hunters have to do things to get weapons and ammo with a monster who can out run them. No fair right? Now you know how the monster feels.


Telemetry and Game Balance
#3

Your whining is invalid since I play both, monster and hunter. It’s about 70/30 in favor of the hunters, but that’s only because I enjoy more of a challenge. It’s too easy to win as monster, and I don’t even touch the wraith or kraken. On the note of behemoth, hes the slowest monster in the game, not to mention the biggest target. Of course they’re going to catch up; they can do that without the booster. OK the hunters land at full strength, but the monster just gets to continue to get stronger so once again invalid. In your theoretical situation, “drop a stage 3 monster in and let the hunters find weapons and ammo,” fine only if those weapons are tanks, nuclear missiles and fighter jets. Then sure, it’d be a little more fair.


#4

If the Behemoth is unable to move fast enough to get out of smell range like he describes, then we have a problem. All monsters need be fast enough to lose the hunters long enough to feed and/or evolve.


#5

Behemoth is a fighter, not a runner. The point of his massive health, and powerful damage output is that he can take a chunk out of the hunters even at stage 1, and while the hunters reform and recover he rolls across the map to evolve, armor up, and come back at them swinging.

His attacks all do middle ground damage, his melee is immense, and he can afford to soak damage to fully pound down an incapped hunter. If you drop the medic you have to pulverize him to the drop ship, after that the hunters can’t afford to keep engaged, as they can easily have their health drained away and they soon die as well.


#6

All monsters need to be able to run, all the monsters are also fighters. Wraith doesn’t have arm blades to cut her hair with. Stage 1 monsters are balanced around being less powerful than the hunters. If a behemoth is found at stage 1, that shouldn’t necessarily mean game over for him. He shouldn’t be expected to have to fight to run another day, he isn’t THAT powerful. Like all the other monsters, he should be able to run to fight another day.


#7

Wraith cannot afford to lose health at any stage, so carful engagements are a must. She has an ideal stealth focus for escaping engagements, and can be tricky to follow.

Goliath can recover from a bad stage one, but as his strength lies in his powers has a great deal of trouble killing early on, necessitating carful fighting. He can create distance and evade from there, but is not stealth inclined.

Kraken is a mobility based ranged fighter, and is capable of keeping himself out of harms way while harassing hunters, and can quickly seize opportunities, but has less ease recovering a bad start, and can be really easily followed due to his loud and visible nature.

Behemoth’s strength lies in his overwhelming offense, and his raw melee power, combined with a relatively even spread of power on his abilities means he can fight better at stage one than any of his fellow monsters, and his massive health gain through evolutions means he can bounce back from the brink of death, meaning a good fight can very quickly tip the match in his favor, but he needs to put the hunters off following him, because he has trouble hiding, and his speed takes a great deal of charge up.

He can run, but is not good at it, but he can fight like no other, so forcing the hunters to leave him alone is his most effective strategy.


#8

False
Had a match where at stage 1 I got brought down to half a bar of health.
Came back for the win :smirk:


#9

It is doable, but hardly ideal, it makes engagements at stage 2 extremely risky. Also, getting strikes negates the health loss somewhat, so unless he failed to land strikes that changes things.
Goliath can fight well at stage 2 even if he was at the brink of death stage one, wraith can’t so much without help and circumstance, aka being cautious.

Staging twice without losing more health is a recovery for any monster.


edit. Regardless, she does not recover as well as the other monsters, this does not mean she can’t recover, merely that it is more difficult.


#10

Not being careful as a stage 1 behemoth means health damage as well, going into combat thinking that you can overpower a team at stage 1 and get down penalties is asking for trouble.

I am inclined to say that behemoth is no better than the other monsters at stage 1. At stage 1 he lacks key parts of his kit and can easily be kited around. His raw melee power is negated by his slower attacking speed, his lower movement speed and his inability to deal with verticality. Being bad at running isn’t an acceptable trait if he should have it. Every monster needs to be able to disengage from combat. I do not think he can force hunters to leave him alone, short of rock wall.


#11

I did fight them eventually. Downed three, let the trapper escape only losing 2 1/2 bars of real health. I get tired of winning at stage 1, it’s no fun. I enjoy the fantasy that I have to get to at last stage 2 to win.


#12

He can disengage.

But has to charge his roll, and plan his escape route ahead of time, and avoid CC effects and harpoons especially.

He has a much easier time simply killing the source of his problems than running away from them, and you should be ready to deal with this fact. Taking a pure utility build is something you can do on the other monsters because they have evasion capabilities to make up for the lack of combat potential.

Behemoth can’t evade, he can fight, and he is built to fight harder than any other monster, so a pure utility build does not serve him nearly as well as an offensive one. Behemoths who try to only run are big lead sponges, and his traversal mandates long slow breathing periods, where he get’s most benefit by thrashing the hunters about, rather than letting them shoot him freely.

He can run, it’s just really hard, and shooting him is easy.
He can hide, he’s just really big, and glows orange.
All monsters can fight, but for behemoth it tends to be easier, if you stay out of death sentence areas of the map.

I am not saying he lacks the ability to do things, he just requires more or less finesse to do them.


#13

Fissure and lava bombs DOT both do damage to flying hunters the abilities I believe don’t quote me on this but I believe it’s 20 meters into the air. So yes punishing jet packed hunters is very possible. Fleeing hunters are easily countered by lava bombs splash damage, and behemoth can walk around while lava bomb is “primed” ensuring they use all of there boost before launching.


#14

If I am not mistaken, fissure’s hitbox only has 8 meters of verticality and lava bombs are still pretty useless for dealing with hunters in the air, gotta wait for them to land. Regardless, we are probably talking about a stage 1 Behemoth who only has 3 points to spare. And what do you mean a behemoth can walk around while a lava bomb is primed? First I am hearing of that, I guess they can probably walk around waiting to aim it but I don’t think they can precharge it or anything like that.


#15

@Malidi_ko was saying that he could not disengage from a sunny team. There is a potentiality that he wasn’t doing something right, but I am also of the belief that Sunny’s jet booster is pretty ridiculous.

Stage 1? Seems nearly impossible. Stage 2? Perhaps. Stage 3? Certainly could.

What exactly do you mean by that? Are you suggesting that defensive tactics involving quick relocation from one part of a dome to another to avoid being in the line of fire isn’t viable? Cuz I was under the impression that it was.

Built to fight harder than any other monster… What does that even mean? He gets no benefit by attempting to brawl with the hunters if he fails to get a down penalty and only dies faster for playing aggressively. If he is in a situation where he wants to end combat, I doubt that fighting more for a better opportunity to run is usually a good idea.


#16

With lava bomb you can hold down the button for it and walk around with the bomb ready to use it whenever you like.


#17

Explain to me how that is different from just pressing the button to use it when you want to.


#18

Is that you brad?


#19

To be honest, a skilled team with Sunny and Griffin/Crow and Caira/Val will never let you go. No matter how skilled you are, if they’re good enough, you aren’t shaking them. Not for long.


#20

Yeah I agree with @MidnightRoses, Behemoth literally doesn’t stand a chance of getting away unless he gets very lucky/situational with rockwall and/or another ability to chain and for other monsters it’s not much better.

I actually feel really bad when playing as Griffin when someone picks Sunny, there’s no fun to be had in trying to keep the monster where it is because you have absolutely no issue in doing so. On the odd occasion that it breaks free long enough to get out of harpoon range it can’t run for long enough before we’ve cut it off or caught up with it again.

I’m a hunter main, I really dislike playing monster and try not to do so until I get the chance to really practice more, but Sunny is completely breaking games with the jetpack boost. I understand that some people don’t see it this way as it means they don’t really have to think about cutting the monster off or bluffing the monster to draw it into a trap, etc, etc…but if I want easy-mode games I’ll go pick something up on my Wii.

I wouldn’t mind the boost so much if she didn’t have all the kit necessary to be strong in a dome instead of just to get to the dome, but that’s not where we’re at.


#21

Especially Behemoth…Poor guy. Always makes me guilty…