Proof the Game is Imbalanced

#1

Okay, I’m getting tired of this propaganda that Turtle Rock Studios PR team is putting out there that the game is balanced. We’ve all experienced this. We’ve experienced that, despite the top game of all four classes, more than half the time, we’re still getting our arse handed to us. I wanted to bring a quantitative view to this, so I decided to do a little research:

So, I started with this little bit of propaganda that was posted on the Evolve Forums:

Interesting, huh? Well, I decided to dig a bit further, looking at:
Support

Medic

Trapper

Assault

One thing I noticed is that the averages for Hunters at the highest skill levels were generally a cool 0.8 to 4.6. Something I expect out of a standard game…then, I decided to look up the Monsters:

I saw this. The monster’s Win/Loss Ratios STARTED at 3.8 and only went up from there. Heck, they have a Win/Loss Ratio at the top of 10-15x the Top 15 of the Hunter lists. I wondered, "How could they say that the monster won half the time, when the monster, at the higher skill levels, clearly wins 60-90% of the time?

I have a hypothesis, and hear me out from this: Incorporating outliers into data. See, in statistics, you usually eliminate outliers because its called erroneous data. They wildly upset your curves, and they are generally not necessary. Outliers, in this case, are first-timers. So, I’m thinking, the reason why Turtle Rock has been able to come up with these numbers is because the players that have not played before are dragging down the percentages. See, at lower skill levels, the monster wins a lot lower percentage of the time. That is because precise timing is needed for things to be pulled off correctly, and the right strategies are needed to truly make a monster effective. However, at higher skill levels, where the player skill is equal, it shows how often the monster can just wipe the floor with the hunters.

Propaganda like this has to stop. Its hurting this game. Stop giving us “Oh, its perfectly balanced.” When we can CLEARLY see the correct numbers right in front of us that the game is truly not balanced. If you want the game to become more than just a joke, more than just a AAA sinkhole, Turtle Rock Studios, you need to get off your ass, and go back to the drawing board, because, honestly, right now, you’re failing your customers. You’re dooming yourself to become another Destiny: novel idea for a month, then everyone forgets you exist.

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#2

Games pretty balanced, but getting into a match with a trapper that doesn’t use the dome is crappy. Alpha and beta had better players for sure.

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#3

Do you have any idea how off those leader boards are? You just picked spots on the boards. Besides lots of monsters quit games to pad their win ratios.

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#4

Calling all this stuff “propaganda” is a bit much, don’t you think?

Re: outliers, I’m not sure about that exact graphic you pulled with the 50.1% win rate for hunters, but with their stats during the alpha/beta they did specify that they only took data from players who weren’t “new”, which were by their definition >5 levels into the progression system. I’d assume this is the same now. Again, though, not sure.

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#5

I said the same thing to myself when I saw all the data. My first thought was, hey, that looks nice, but what does it actually tell me? You should never accept statistics at face value, thats one of the first things I learnt in university. Don’t just accept the data without a thought, question the parameters used to get it.

For example, how many new players have dragged down the W / L rate of a class or character? At what level of play is the game meant to be balanced? Will the concerns of everyone under that level be rejected for high level balance? How many people have quit a game to try and maintain a high W / L ratio? So on.

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#6

Arg. I hate when people just dismiss it as “oh, its a bug.” No, seriously, the game is unbalanced. I feel like very little thought was placed into the game’s balance. Plus, on top of it, most of the time, you’re just waiting for the 3rd Stage, then you defend and the game is over.

The idea behind Evolve, when they first announced it, was “One monster with a lot of power versus four weak humans with lots of mobility.” This doesn’t seem to be the case. Monsters shouldn’t have a higher mobility than the humans, yet, here they are, running circles around hunters. Vast sections of the game, you aren’t doing anything but holding the “forward” + “climb” key. I feel like…they just didn’t know what to do, and by time they hit that, they already announced that it existed and couldn’t back out.

1 Like
#7

I have a better win/loss ratio as the monster because when I play as a Hunter I need to rely on other players to succeed. If one of my teammate suck, then the entire team is going down. Whereas I play as a monster and the only thing holding me back is my own skill level.

As a single player being a monster has a higher probability for victory if you are good at the game. It doesn’t mean the game is unbalanced, it means the skill of your matchmade teammates is.

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#8

There is no way this game is balanced across all characters, all monsters, and all game modes. We’ll see how the game is in a few months.

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#9

Actually you are correct but at the same time entirely wrong…

The game is Balanced (upto to some point) but the players arent. The players always find a new way to kill stuff and because of that nothing can be balanced. The game would be in perfect balance if everything was computer controlled who would play according to bunch of codes.

But in the case of human players,its different.Every one of play differently, some sux while some rox and because of this driving factor, its simply impossible to say anything is balanced. Because of the same factor monster will have higher win ratio OR the Hunter will have win ratio(This can happen in both ways).

Obviously Monster has higher win ratio because its a ONE MAN ARMY and you dont have to depend on team mates, while hunters have to depend on teammates.

Monster winning is based on 1 factor, the skill of the player controlling monster. WHILE
Hunter winning is based on 4 factors, the skill of each player.

Because of this the ratio of hunter wins would be lower than that of monster.

Making a topic without thinking about how things work is simply stupid…

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#10

Look, no one here just said that it’s just a bug. You kind of responded to that out of nowhere.

There’s been a lot of effort put into the game’s balance. It might not be perfect, but claiming there’s no effort put in is simply disrespectful to the devs, IMO. I can’t speak as to overall statistics because math hard for brain, but what you’re talking about with the game feeling like the hunters aren’t doing anything but holding forward and spacebar was a common complaint, and the reason why many people dismiss the game as repetitive. That’s because holding forward and spacebar isn’t hunting the monster. It’s chasing the monster. And that shit is definitely boring.

Hunters have the ability to split up, to predict where the monster is going, cut him off, control the map and control the perks more effectively, and that’s not including any of the hunters actual skills and class abilities. If all you’re doing is walking forward and climb and chasing the tracks, then yes, the monster is going to always be faster than you, and you’re going to lose. Good thing there’s lots and lots and lots of other things you can be doing.

1 Like
#11

When you’re talking about balance in a game, you’re not talking about the players themeselves. Balance means: If two players at the skill level (I.e you vs yourself) played x number of matches, how many matches would the first guy win using A character(s) and how many times is the second guy going to win using B character(s). The goal would be to have both win equal amount of time.

#12

I learned everything I needed to know about this game’s “balance” when I realized a Monster can pounce a Hunter while being shot at. It makes clutching a win IMPOSSIBLE. In all sense of the word, IMPOSSIBLE. Three times now I’ve been last alive as Assault and shooting the monster while I was invincible when he had 1 bar of health left, and he pounced me and it’s over. What’s the point in having a health bar when they can do that to me at full health, let alone INVINCIBLE. Until they put a cooldown on pounce, they’re going the wrong way with balancing this game.

Don’t give me that “you shouldn’t be alone” response, re-read very carefully what I wrote if that’s what you’re responding with

#13

If you’re alone, keep your distance.

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#14

You are not supposed to engage a damn 30ft monster when you are alone… YOU RUN… YOU HIDE…YOU MAKE SURE YOU SURVIVE until your team mates drops back in…

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#15

Don’t argue with me on this subject:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=92580B1768D32EE5!597&authkey=!AJ3Bq-imbS_MdXQ&ithint=video%2Cmp4

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#16

The game is, in fact, very well balanced. Pretty much any and all telemetry you’ll find is skewed due to the highly inconsistent level of skill present in all players. If you have an average Monster against a very good Medic, Trapper, and Support, but a mediocre Assault, the Monster will likely take that game.

You cannot offer statistics or numbers as proof of bad balance simply because of all the external circumstances.

@Hugh_Madboroughh That was epic.

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#17

I’m confused as to what you’re trying to prove with that clip. I mean, great clip, clutch play, I would’ve been screaming FUCK YEAH for you if I was on your team, but . . . How does that apply here?

#18

You have to realize that pouncing is an instakill in this game on a hunter who is last alive, this shouldn’t be the case. I understand that sometimes we should run, and sometimes we should fight, like I’ve shown in my video where I did fight. However, if I believe it’s in my best interest to run away until the dropship comes with my teammates, I sure as HELL don’t want the monster to be able to instakill pounce me when he’s also faster than me and can sense me using smell. The Assault players NEED to be able to make a final stand sometimes. That’s how clutches are made like the one shown in my video, which was the Beta

#19

It applies because if that clip was the final release which we’re playing now instead of the Beta which was the version in the video, he could’ve pounced me and it would’ve been over. That play would’ve been impossible.

#20

Amen to this. Pounce should have a cooldown. Or can only pounce if you are either at someones out of line of sight. Like back, below, flank and above.

1 Like