Post beta tuning adjustments


Hi all. Lots of people were curious about tuning adjustments due to observations, feedback and telemetry gathered from the Beta. I thought it would be cool to share them here.

For Turtle Rock, these changes are part of the normal process. We continually make adjustments to the game and have done so for nearly four years. The thing to keep in mind is that these tuning changes are incredibly simple to make. Ninety percent of the time the change involves opening a file, changing a number value and saving it, so don’t panic if you see something here you don’t like! We can always go back if something doesn’t work out. As such we encourage everyone to keep an open mind and try the new build out for a few days before coming to any conclusions.

Our goals:

  • Make the Wraith easier to track. Even good Hunters have a hard time keeping tabs on Wraith because she can move so far while cloaked.
  • Make the Decoy less spammy. It doesn’t take any skill to keep punching that ability button and let the AI Decoy go to work. We want to increase the “cost” of using it so that people use it more sparingly/strategically.
  • Bring Supernova down a notch. It’s o.k. if it’s her primary damage dealer, but it felt a little on the buff side for a while internally and we saw it prove true during the Beta.
  • Make Abduction a little easier to land. It’s a really fun ability to use and it was underutilized during the beta.
  • Make Warp Blast a threat. This should be a straight forward damage dealer that also has some nice mobility utility.

Wraith changes:

  • Wraith can no longer warp while cloaked. If she does, the cloak wears off and the Decoy vanishes (just like when you melee attack). This means that when she cloaks, she normally won’t get far and it opens the door for skilled players to do smart things like break line of sight before warping away.
  • Decoy takes 30% longer to cool down. This immediately makes it 30% less spammy and hopefully results in players saving it for the more opportune moments.
  • Supernova damage reduced by 10%. Not a huge change, but it will make a measurable difference.
  • Abduction radius increased by .5 meters (now 3.5). This will make it a little more forgiving.
  • Warp Blast radius increased by .5 meters (now 8.5). Increasing the radius here has proven a great way to increase the damage output in the past as players are able to hit their targets more often.

Misc changes:

  • Goliath Rock Throw inner shrapnel radius increased. What this means is if the rock lands close to a target the damage dealt will be more consistent. The overall damage and damage radius doesn’t change. The damage just becomes more binary (you either get hit by the shrapnel or you don’t.)
  • Markov Lightning Gun has a smaller lock on angle. Previously it would lock on to a target that was within 30 degrees of your crosshair. Now you need to be within 15 degrees. Still feels good, but players will need to be a little more accurate with their aim.
  • Hyde flamethrower damage bumped by 5%.
  • Griffin’s maximum harpoon range extended by 5 meters (now 50.) Sucks when your aim was good but the length was too short for a flying Kraken. Should be more reliable now.
  • Bucket Rocket damage increased to 75 (was 68) per rocket.
  • Bucket Sentry Gun damage increased to 20 (was 17) per bullet.
  • Cabot’s Radioactive Dusting radius decreased 10% (now 45 meters.)
  • Jetpack slow climb speed increased 50%.

Mastery Changes

We changed the majority of the numbers, but I’ll call out the really big changes. When I say hours, I mean how long it should take people to accomplish the task given the community averages. Time is actual play time (excludes matchmaking, lobby, post round, etc.)

  • Markov’s three star Arc Mines were taking 12.63 hours for people to complete. Should be five now.
  • Maggie’s three star Daisy mastery was taking 17.79 hours. Now 5.
  • Hank’s three star Orbital Barrage was taking 24.97 hours! We reduce the minimum range to 40 meters and set to five hours.
  • Val’s two star Sniper Rifle was taking 14.68 hours. Set to 2.5.
  • Val’s two star Medgun was taking 6.31 hours. Set to 2.5
  • Val’s three star Tranq was taking 12.41 hours. Set to 5.
  • Hyde’s two star Noxious Gas Grenade was taking 5.07 hours. Set to 2.5
  • Lazarus’ three star Lazarus Device was taking 9.64 hours. Set to 5.
  • Lazarus’ three star Personal Cloak was taking 10.79 hours. Set to 5.
  • Parnell three star Shotgun was taking 18.28 hours. Set to 5.
  • Parnell three start Rocket Launcher was taking 12.10 hours. Set to 5.
  • Abe three star Shotgun was taking 9.31 hours. Set to 5.

Wasn’t able to adjust any Monster mastery numbers because we didn’t get telemetry on them due to a bug. :frowning: Bug is fixed so we might get an update shortly after release if any of the numbers look bad.

Tons of bug fixes and adjustments to matchmaking. Too many for me to dig up or keep track of. We’ll make sure to get a process down for future updates so we can keep you all in the loop.

That’s it! Everything else looked good so these numbers are locked in for launch and then we’ll revisit everything again shortly after release!

Oh, and I want to shout out a big THANKS!!! to everyone who participated. Without you, we wouldn’t have the data to make all these adjustments. This is what it’s all about. This is the cycle we’ll see after release. Going to be a lot of fun!

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Community Resource: Full Hunter Weapon & Item Stats
Community Resource: Full Hunter Weapon & Item Stats
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Thanks for posting this.


Don’t think Hyde or Bucket needed the change but I certainly won’t complain about more damage to throw about!

Wraith changes are nice. Still expect to be chunked by an uppercutting decoy though. I feel like I played Wraith a lot like how you sound like you want her to be played. Hunting hunters at stage 2 and Abducting them is paradise!


Great changes overall. No complaints.


Interesting you guys increased Bucket’s damage a bit. It’s not listed, perhaps because it was a bug from what I read, but can the UAV target sneaking monsters with this post-beta build too?

Looking forward to these Wraith changes and seeing how they play out.

@Sorrowgate I think the Hyde change was because people were choosing the Minigun over the Flamethrower. The slight damage increase might encourage people to use the latter as intended.


@MacMan I have a question, have you guys considered tweaking Hyde’s Toxic Grenade? The slow has mixed reaction within the playerbase. Maybe increase the cooldown from 6 to 12 seconds and removing the slow.


I like this stuff. Especially the Wraith stuff. It feels like now Wraiths will rely more on actual hit and run tactics as opposed to Novacoy+Warp spammage.


Fair enough. I’m the other way round. Rarely see a reason to use the minigun because the flamethrower does so much damage. I even enjoy fighting Kraken for an excuse to use it. Markov’s got a good excuse for the assault rifle because of the accuracy and the lower damage of the lightning gun (compared to the flamethrower). Pretty easy to get some competitive damage out of weak points.

Do you think assault players weren’t being brave enough or fast enough during the beta? Saw Markov and Hyde players alike shooting from a distance instead of sprinting or using their jetpacks to get close.


Ok, I think I saw some “misses” where the rock basically hits but almost no damage was dealt, even with a stage 3 rock. Is this “fix” addressing that?


Yeah, sorry. I didn’t list bugs. That was a bug and it got fixed for ship.


I know it’s controversial but I want to hang onto it longer. If we remove the slow, people will simply spam it during combat. It wasn’t designed for that. It was designed to toss into an area where the Monster is hanging out and trying to bait you/trap you.


Yeah, should fix that.


No jetpack changes? fuel was quite sparse in the beta.


Poo, forgot those. let me edit. ( - Jetpack slow climb speed increased 50%.)


Ok cool! Love rock throw, just wanted to make sure I understood that.


Oh, wow! That’s a welcome change as a Monster player, but I figured it’d come with an associated damage debuff to compensate. I do remember hitting some folks with edge of the rock blast and being annoyed that they took virtually no damage, but I was always surprised at the absurd amount of damage a direct hit dealt. It’s something pretty high, like half a Hunter’s health, isn’t it?


Yeah, I did not unlock Hyde in beta but in Big Alpha I used his flamethrower a lot more. His minigun didn’t feel necessary unless there was distance.

I rarely saw Hyde players, and I mostly played with friends, but when I did get paired with an assault stranger they seemed rather aggressive to me. They threw themselves in too early or too much, and relied on the Lightning Gun too often (most were Markovs).

I don’t know what rank you got to, but the deal I noticed at higher ranks (20+) the monsters I went against rarely focused on assault. As a result, the assaults might’ve had trouble keeping up and had to switch to their secondary guns. On top of that, the particular players you were with might have been going for higher DPS with the minigun/assault rifle on weak points. It might be a mentality they were adopting and missing the point of the assault’s main weapon.

@MacMan Thank you for the answer! I figured as much. I just wanted clarification. :smile:


WHOOP WHOOP lookign good!


Yeah. Exactly half. If they take armor, they can take two in the face. If they don’t, they can only eat one.


Looks like a lot of good changes to me!