Possibly an idea to make Laz more viable in higher level play


#1

I won’t make a long intro, if you think Lazarus is fine then just don’t post here. If you think he could use some serious tweaks, then hear me out:
make the revivifier heal LIVE hunters to full hp- only at close range,jut like with corpses - I’m not saying it’d change THAT much regarding current problems with Laz, but it would let him use the healing burst more for himself and in fights instead of having to chase from teammate to teammate in order to heal them to full hp during hunting and it would make him more of a viable healer overall- “you’re almost dead but managed to get a breather for 2 seconds?then Laz will fix ya up” It would not only make Laz players feel that they can actually heal the team it would fix the biggest problem- domed monsters going straight for the trapper because they know Laz can’t do shit to prevent him being downed.

The idea hit me out of the blue and I HAVEN’T given that much though about it,but I think it’s at least worth discussing.

So,do you think it would make him incredibly OP or would such a change actually make you feel like you’ve got a chance against a good monster with Laz in the team?


#2

I suggested this idea awhile ago. I just find it weird the Lazarus Device has no real use unless someone is incapped or dead.


#3

Being unable to sustain his team mates is a big thing that is keeping him down. Is your suggestion that the healing function would work exactly like the rez function? (i.e. cast range, cast time and what not?) Cuz that might be enough to make Lazaurus OP. I’m imagining a hank being healed from half to full by Lazaurus just by doing a run by heal every 15 seconds.


#4

Laz one of the very few characters yet to be tweaked. He obviusly needs SOMETHING, but everyone just throws the OP term out on the wide range of things he could be given which is ironic because you always hear him not being viable in higher level matches.

He needs tweaking, but people think anything you give him is OP, make up your minds.

Laz is like the Bucket of Medics.


#5

Since the revivifier only heals to 80% I think that would be a bit much. Having it work similar to a heal burst would make him better but I think it would need to be 40% or 60% not a full heal.


#6

Nah, Laz is not the bucket of medics. Val is the bucket of medics. Bucket and Val as bad cuz their numbers were tuned too low. Yes Laz does need something. It may just be that his kite might be unable to be worked into the competitive scenes. Giving him the ability to sustain the life of his teammates doesn’t seem like the right move. I would point out that I am not everyone, this is the only Lazaurus change idea that I have ever referred to as being OP or potentially OP. Mostly because I haven’t thought too much about what to change about Lazaurus that would bring him into the realm of viable against the better monsters.


#7

Give him two heal burst and if cloaked while using lazarus device make it refresh your cloak.


#8

I have also been suggesting using the revivifier to get a hunter back to 80% HP. It can’t possible be OP, considering Caira is already capable of doing so on long range.
Let’s be honest, the reason this won’t happen is just because it will “ruin” the gimmic.
A melee healer can’t really be OP, come man.

It would be so helpfull! If the team can dodge well, it would be hope for an almost dead support, as an example. And if the monster purposly wear down everyone to a fraction of their health, is that really fair? Because while it’s a smart strategy, it’s not hard to pull off at all! Do it, TRS, pretty, pretty please!

I got to disagree, Lazarus can atleast be used in pubs against weak monster players. But he is instana-countered by a tiny bit over average monsters. Insta-countered! Bucket is just there… taking the credit for the kill. Well, his UAV is pretty nice, but picking a character just for that… well, not enough.


#10

I only feel like it would ruin his backstory. :frowning:

Otherwise I agree that it would probably solve the trouble with him. Meelee medic can’t be OP, and Monsters have plenty of possibilities to stop such a heal.


#11

Yes but Caira cannot pick people up for no strikes. Are you suggesting that Laz should have the sustainability of Caira? :stuck_out_tongue:

But I agree, being able to heal at least 60-70% would be great…


#12

Well, no and yes. No, I don’t say he should have the sustainability of Caira, but I do want him to have the burst of Caira, but at the price of being only available in melee range and trigger the cooldown on the device.

Here is my logic: Lazarus win ratio is ~ok in pubs but very low in high level play. A melee heal would be hard to pull off in pubs, so it would have a minimal effect on “non-pro levels”, while it would lead to some very interesting strategies in high level play. TRS have used the excuse themselves.


I suggested 80% because of simplicity’s sake. Using the Lazarus device on an incapped person already bring them to 80%.


#13

I know, I was kidding. :slight_smile:


#14

perhaps a temporary buff to the target upon using the device on a live hunter. you are getting shocked by a device that comes pretty close to magic, it should give you some sort of boost!

And not to mention, lazarus takes a big risk trying to apply this buff to a hunter that is under attack by the monster.

So, how about having the device doing the following:

-give an ally the super soldier buff for ± 5 seconds

  • give an ally a temporary shield that lasts ± 3 seconds.

-give an ally a damage reduction buff for 5seconds


#15

I understand how he may be viewed as OP being to able to heal with the Lazarus device BUT

this is what I’m suggesting. So the device would go on COOLDOWN after healing and it would also require the standard charge time like with resurrecting.

I like your idea @Alex_Versnel but I think it’s overly complicated from the developer point of view.
plus

I’d like to see only the movement speed/jump height from it. If it would encourage players to make dangerous gambits(using the super soldier buffs to maximize damage) it would kill its purpose as a defensive tool. The shield however sounds pretty nice. Still could be used offensively,but no matter how it’s used it would still be damage reduction/team sustainability- the thing that Laz needs.

Laz is especially problematic for me, since he’s(was,now Val is also modified) the ONLY character that receives SPECIAL TREATMENT(lower healing burst cooldown)- so the developers talking about consistency in this case is total baloney to me.

The more I think about it the more I see that unified mechanics for all hunters are actually what makes the game unbalanced in some cases. If all characters worked A LITTLE bit differently in terms of the class abilities and how perks and buff influence them, I believe the game would not also be even more interesting, it would also drastically change individual character play styles which would in turn make players choose the play style they feel comfortable with, instead of being practically forced to use the most viable and trustworthy option(like Caira)

A few more words on Laz- I also though about the option for Lazarus to auto-revive when his corpse decay timer reaches 0, like if he had the device set to “auto”- this would force monster players who focus Laz(I think that’s the most common practice on higher tier plays,correct me if I’m wrong) to at least go through the effort of eating the body before proceeding to destroy a now totally defenseless team. Either that or just make Laz so he can never get any strikes- still wouldn’t be much of a difference if he got downed, but at least he could counter the constant focus by making it worth less than it is now. Lazarus on 1 strike is painful as he’s much easier to kill, Lazarus on 2 strikes means that you have a dead man walking in your team and you are almost guaranteed a loss.


#16

These are some of the best laz ideas I have seen.


#17

What if the laz device gave insta 35% plus unused class specific perk engaged? Ie. If you heal caira while still up for 35% it triggers her acceleration, but leaves it full on her ability to use again. With a player like maggie, the 35% is applied to her and daisy. Do the laz device on hank and insta cloak. If this is done though the cool down on laz device would have to be increased to 30 to 35 seconds so spamming it wouldn’t be an option, also choosing when to use it, on a teammate almost down or to hold it for an incapped or dead player…


#18

I got the solution, have all hunters pick health regen :slight_smile:


#19

Not fast enough to make a difference in high lv play


#20

I’m not sure I get what you mean. I understand that the example of healing Caira with the Lazaus device is a mistake, since you can’t have two medics at one time in the team. I’m also not sure what would the 35% apply on Daisy and Maggie? movement speed? Cooldown on class abilities or what?

that’s actually one of the problems, not the solution

also this:


#23

Yea The Caira Was A mistake. So for example let’s use parnell, so if parnell is still up, laz uses device on him, he gets a 35% heal and the SS is triggered for free. So if parnell has not used his SS, he gets a free one from laz and still has his in the bank to use. However if the special is on cooldown, it is not refilled, it just keep refilling while the free one from laz is active. When it comes to trappers, the bonus would be health solely b/c there special can’t be modified, so daisy and maggie get the 35% each, crow and other would get idk 50%. Hope this helps you understand what I’m thinking.