[Poll & Discussion] Should Fire Breath and Acid spit stay undodgable?


#1

Goliath is currently bar far the most fun Monster to play against, but there is one thing that annoys me every time: Having a full jetpack and low health, then getting hit by a Flamebreath. Don’t get me wrong, its not as bad as being tumbled to death, and there are other issues that have a higher priority, but still…
Acid Spit has the same mechanics as Flamebreath, thus the direct spit is not avoidable at all if the Monster can aim a little bit.

  • Both should be dodgable
  • Only FB should be dodgable
  • Only AS should be dodgable
  • I don’t care
  • Leave my undodgable abilities alone!

0 voters

So I’d like a small discussion here about what you think about this, maybe even some suggestions how they could be made dodgable without compromising the Monster’s fun.


#2

I’ll have to disagree, I like where fire breath is right now. Also, how could you make FB dodgeable? O.o


#3

What’s with the biased wording on the “keep abilities undodgable” answer? Wording like that makes people feel bad for choosing that answer, and generally skews the results of the poll itself, resulting in an unfair representation of the people’s opinion.


#4

I agree, it’s almost like a loaded question. Discussion my ass.


#5

Fire Breath and acid spit are not the highest damage dealing abilities. The fact remains that, if your health got low enough for you to be incapacitated by FB/AS, it just means you didn’t dodge the previous abilities well enough :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

The point of FB/AS is to damage multiple hunters and wildlife, whereas RT or ST are made to damage 1 Hunter or grouped up hunters.

I think they are fine where they are at. If anything, Gorgon needs WS not cancel out Jetpack or movement speed. AS could also use a smaller diameter when the spit is on the ground.


#7

The only undodgeable ability I want changed is Banshee Missile.


#8

There is no way to make them dodgeable except to slow down the actual fire/acid as it moves though the air, which would make them utterly useless. Neither of the abilities is exactly devastating and are meant for killing wildlife or finishing low health Hunters. That’s like asking if we should decrease melee hitboxes because they can be used to finish off full-jetpack, low health Hunters.


#9

If I knew, I would have made a suggestion instead :stuck_out_tongue:

I am biased and I think if somebody is so easily influenced by my wording, they didnt have an actual opinion in the first place.

It mostly means that my medic died a minute ago and the Monster is coming back for easy strikes. Also if dodging perfectly would make it so that you wouldnt get low health, I would call for the opposite: Less dodgable abilities.
Also, a full firebreath with burn DoT gets up to 614/658 damage, Acid Spit 640 with 2 instances of the pool DoT. I wouldnt call 40% that low actually. With 2 strikes from the next TU, that would be about 50% damage out of good aim.

It doesnt. Only Movement speed is affected.

As far as I know, the hitbox of light attacks will actually be smaller, with the heavies being larger.
If you have a full jetpack, you can dodge a melee attack preemtively, while FB and AS will hit you anywhere.


#10

Mind citing that? I’m not entirely discounting it because it doesn’t sound utterly ridiculous (though it is a bit iffy), but I wouldn’t know where to look.

They may hit you from a good distance, and quickly, but they’re far from being really powerful. I don’t think it should even be a concern. FB is weaker than it used to be, and Acid Spit isn’t even on par with it right now, plus it’s getting nerfed further. Being entirely realistic, a Hunter close enough for both of those to hit AND be killed by them would be close enough for any other ability to kill them instantly.


#11

Cant find it, sorry. Might remeber it wrong though.

You also have to account for about 2 instances of pool damage. You cant really get out while Gorgon is spitting. Overall they can do about the same damage without the Hunter having any influence on it.

25 meters Goliath, 35 meters Meteor Goliath, cant find a number for Gorgon. 20 meters should be a rather comfortable distance to dodge most abilities. Also you have to account for the DoT damage that comes after the initial hit. With that, FB is Goliaths number 2 ability in terms of damage. With MG it’s his weakest though, but he has a lot more range. The direct damage of Mimic and Spider Trap is lower than the direct damage of Acid spit. Acid Spit is also only 20 damage behind Web Snare’s total damage.


#12

Sounds like good monster play to me. The fact that the medic died means you have to be extra cautious and avoid further damage till the medic returns.

Don’t forget that with the next title update the dropship timer has been changed so it won’t take 2 minutes anymore for any Hunter to return to the field. Each stage up adds 30 seconds and each strike another 7-8 second (still being discussed)


#13

Honestly, Acid spit is dodge able, mostly.

If you jetpack straight up it gets you out of range of the ground pools and makes it very difficult to hit you with the spit reliably, while simultaneously placing further pools behind you. If you try to dodge to the sides you still mitigate some, but it is much easier to continue hitting you with further acid.

Fire breath is much harder to mitigate, but it is nowhere as powerful for focusing on one person to begin with.

It has 2 blind spots, right in front of his face, straight up, and of course it only has so much range if neither are options.


#14

Those can be avoided by jetpacking directly backwards. Two dodges would bring you out of range for most of the duration of the ability. Acid Spit arcs, so it’s got very limited range unless you’re going after one person and try-harding. In which case, you’re gonna miss anyone mitigating hard anyways because you’d have to actively aim up to increase distance.

FB may be OG’s #2 ability, but dodging left or right more than once brings you out of it, again, for most of the duration. Meaty is a bit different. You rarely need to dodge that, but the point stands - they’re not abilities you can’t get out of. They’re shotgun abilities, much like Charge and Vortex. The initial part always gets you, but it IS possible to minimize damage fairly easily.


#15

MS isn’t anymore affected by WS than getting punted by a rock mid-air.


The problem with the Gorgon is the massive AoE she has. AS does enough damage, the pool spread and the spout size is the issue, as is WS’s size. Damage & duration on it is a completely different matter.

Firebreath is useless compared to AS or MG’s FB, if anything the damage on it needs to be buffed imo. And I agree with @trickshotmcgee here. It’s no different from using LS in this case, but the damage is far more gradual.


Edit: To further iterate, even if AS does 42/tick (I don’t know what the re-tick rate is), and if the all to common Val is being used, you can expect the spout to do little in the way of damage because of her out-healing it. Fire Breath suffers this problem, so does the Wraith’s supernova.

In the time Fire Breath is active, you can’t melee. At all. Val without a heal burst can heal up to 660 hitpoints in that time. Slim can out-heal it easily, and EMET can do the same with a well-timed heal burst.

You’re ignoring what the team can do in the mean time, and this is ignoring Hank/Sunny’s shield(s) and the player dodging. This is why I said OG FB needs a buff, both in range and in damage. I WILL agree that the Gorgon’s AoE needs to be toned down a bit, but she’s otherwise fine. There’s a few tweaks I’d like to see, such as WS being upped back up to 4s duration and its DoT being cut by 20%, but that’s a discussion for another time.


#16

Ok, so I dont know the tick rate either, but I assume its somewhere between 5 and 10 per seconds, which outdamages Val’s medgun. Wraith’s Supernova does up to 300 DPS (60 per hit and .2 seconds per hit) so Val shouldnt outheal that either if you stand in it.
And where are you getting a 6 second duration for Flamebreath from? That’s the burn DoT duration of MG.
OG’s Flame Breath lasts 1 second and the DoT 3 seconds. Since the DoT timer is refreshed during the Flamebreath, it should last for 4 seconds in total. The direct damage alone is 438 which would stand against 440 of Val’s medgun.

But I think focusing on damage is missing the point that I was trying to make. It’s not that much about the damage, but more about not being able to actively do something about it. Like I said above, this is not a huge issue, but an annoying nuissance nonetheless, which some (silent) people seem to agree on.


#17

I used it as an example (in other words I pulled it out of my ass). I don’t actually know how long FB lasts for. What it boils down to is how much damage it does overall with all the extra nuances.

The numbers say one thing, but in application it’s totally different. OG FB is pitiful, I can’t hit anything with it with a proper team, by the time I re-lock, they’re already fully healed again.

If you want to be technical, I’ll give an example, let’s say the trapper’s sitting still. You have 3 points in Firebreath at Stage 2, OG Val is the medic healing the trapper the entire time.

For the next 6 seconds you fire off FB, it does 88/s, so you get 528, add on 40 DPS for the 6 seconds, that comes up to 768. Val can heal 660 in that time frame, ignoring her heal burst.

You’re only taking off a sliver of health.

Now add on the trapper moving around, bobbing and weaving around the environment so they can get away. Your DPS is halved from 528 to 264 in those 6 seconds and add on the 40 DPS if you can manage to hit them within 3 seconds to reset the fire timer, that goes up to 504, which ends up leaving you with a healed target with an extra sliver of health.

Like I said, in theory, you’d be getting the numbers you’re talking about. In reality, not so much.


Compare this to AS, if they climb a wall, you’ll obviously be hit by the pool, doubling up the damage.

Let’s just say same scenario and a 3 pt AS does 42/s plus the 135/s from the pool for the sake of simplicity. Trapper stands there. In a 6 second time frame it does 1062, Val obviously can’t out-heal this.

Now the trapper properly dodging the pool, for those 6 seconds, it goes from 1062 to 252, assuming you properly dodged the pool(s). Val can EASILY outheal that. But the Gorgon also has other abilities, such as Web Snare and Mimic to stack on the damage.

This is all in theory though. What I’m trying to get at is that in application, it’s completely different from the numbers we’re spewing.

What @TrickshotMcgee was trying to relay is that a lot of issue with AoE/shotgun is due to human error, you need to maintain your composure and be calm. I know that’s difficult to do when the monster’s breathing down your neck, but that’s how I look at it. I agree the hitscan on the Gorgon’s abilities are WAY too large, but like I said, different discussion.

In short, properly dodge and you’ll be fine, you’ll get scrapes, so the medic can heal you. One thing Mcgee forgot to mention would be to use the terrain. If the monster can’t see you, often times, it can’t do damage to you. There’s obviously exceptions to this, but this is assuming you don’t have an Elder Kraken breathing down your neck.


And about the Wraith, she can get up to 300 DPS, but like I said, that’s theoretically. In application she desperately needs a buff to her Supernova damage to put it into AT LEAST around 450 theoretical DPS MINIMUM to get something out of the ability and still get the down. I digress however, that’s off-topic.


#19

#21

If you’re dodging Parnell’s shotgun, Hyde’s minigun, Dankov’s assault rifle, and all the other bullet weapons as a two story Monster, then they’re doing something wrong.

You may dodge a bullet or two, but no.


#22

I was joking around. Bullets have an instantaneous move time. with the exception of a few weapons.

To answer your question: No, not off the top of my head.