[PC] Tongue Grab broken because of knockback change


#1

Changed the way in which momentum and velocity is applied to the Hunters when a knockback or tumble is applied.

In the current PC patch if you tongue grab a hunter that is jetpacking, they won’t be pulled to you, but instead at an angle, probably the sum of the pull vector and the hunters movement vector. It’s not fair nor should it be intended that this change was applied to tongue grab (was it also applied to abduct?)

H -> hunter jetpacking right
|
| - tongue
X - behemoth

…H - hunter position after pull if hunter didn’t hit an obstacle or wall.
X - behemoth

Mid-air tongue grabs on fast moving airborne hunters should be a skill shot and reward you, and instead they do nothing now because of this knockback change. Behemoth doesn’t have the mobility to move to their deviated location either and follow up. More often than not, the hunter’s momentum will send them into a wall / terrain that will stop the tongue grab short.

There’s no need to keep nerfing Behemoth indirectly to balance the other monsters. If this change was actually intended, Behemoth needs to be made significantly faster or buffed in other ways because as it is now, tongue grab is useless vs any moving hunter.

edit: non-balance related reasons this change should not be intended…

  1. A tongue is not a flexible rope.
  2. The tongue is rigid / pauses when it grabs the hunter.
  3. There is no knock back or tumbling. The hunter is clearly upright the entire time, with arms flailing.

#2

By the way
behemoth can destroy the whole team from stage one

I always do that even with high 40 levels hunters

They have to nurf him a lot to balance the game … If he was ellite … It’s almost impossible to win against him


#3

That’s odd I thought tongue grab stopped velocity (as the hunter is suspended in mid air for a brief moment).


#4

You should join the ESL and try that on a real team! I would like to see that.


#5

I’m not sure I quite understand this. I understand that you aren’t getting mid-air hunters… But with the angle thing, aren’t they still coming to you? I’m not sure I see a problem if you get the hunters…


#6

no actually quite the opposite he is in need of some buffs…


#7

They are not coming to you. If the hunter jetpacks to the right as you tongue grab them. They will be pulled diagonally to the right, not to where you are standing. I can make a video of this but anyone who plays behemoth should notice this after using tongue grab a few times.

H -> hunter jetpacking right
|
| - tongue
X - behemoth

…H - hunter position after pull if hunter didn’t hit an obstacle or wall.
X - behemoth

Edit: I don’t have time right now to test the full extent of this bug, but it is most noticable if the hunter does a jetpack burst and you tongue grab him mid-air, before he slows down.


#8

Thanks for the confirmation! Could you make a video when you get the chance? Because I’m not on PC, and I would love to see what you’re talking about.


#9

Yes, part of the patch notes said that initial velocity was maintained when being knocked/pulled.


#10

Video probably won’t be until tomorrow night, because you need 2 people to replicate it easily. If anyone else wants to make a video on PC, just do this:

  1. Communicate which direction you will jetpack burst (enable open voice / all chat).
  2. Have Behemoth friend try to tongue grab you after the burst while still moving in the air.

The patch notes said knockback or tumble, not pull. If anything the tongue grab is a flailing animation, they are not tumbling, or being knocked back. The change should also apply to abduction if this was intended.


#11

Pull is tumble :smile:

Edit: Also abduction is where someone is being held and dragged so not quite the same physics?

Edit2: I’m not trying to suggest that it’s right or good that tongue grab is like this by the way, just saying that it’s to be expected from the changes.


#12

Well I don’t agree that this was to be expected because

  1. A tongue is not a flexible rope.
  2. The tongue is rigid / pauses when it grabs the hunter. As @taskforcem85 said, this should stop or significantly slow the hunter’s velocity.
  3. There is no knock back or tumbling. The hunter is clearly upright the entire time, with arms flailing.

edit: those are the non balance related reasons. Tongue grab / behemoth already had enough problems before this.


#13

Sure, I don’t agree or disagree with your assessment. As you say, those aren’t anything to do with balance. The reality is that clearly the changes for knockback include all “stunned” states, and that includes tongue grab.

So I wouldn’t say it’s a bug, it’s clearly intended as it’s in line with all other similar “stun” state changes. You can disagree with it’s application, absolutely, but we’re splitting hairs if we’re talking about why this should or shouldn’t be bug :wink:

I’m going to move this to feedback.


#14

Played Behemoth the first time after the patch right now and yeah… The tongue grab trajectory of pulled Hunters is completely messed up now to the point where if you actually happen to land a grab with all the hit detection issues it already got, you won’t be able to capitalize on it whatsoever if your target was moving in any direction while grabbed. The pull trajectory is not a straight line anymore if the target moves whatsoever, up to the point where you won’t even reach the Hunter if he jetpack dodges while getting pulled as he lands before you even get to the landing spot. It severely cripples Behemoth in locking him out of his only viable combo he got to single out any target.

@MrStrategio is this intended for whatever reason or bugged due to the new tumble mechanics?


#15

yes make a video pls


#16

They could fix this by making the hunter be stuck to the tongue all way the until it reaches Behemoth like a frog’s sticky tongue, and like Wraith’s abduction. Hunters would drop right in front of you. Not sure how hard this would be to implement though.


#17

Thanks for reporting the issue. I’ve got it logged and we’ll be looking into it.


#18

I think the word youre looking for here is “overlooked”