Official Rainbow Six: Siege Thread


#2122

Rook isn’t picked that often though. At least not in ranked.

Also, you shouldn’t be placing them during the prep phase as they will be spotted out.

This change should make him usable now.


#2123

So? The major complaint about kapkan being 3 speed was that it takes too long to get around the map and place your traps AND having to reinforce as well as anything extra you might do. Now they increased the number of traps you need to plant and I haven’t seen a single mention of reducing the trap placement time which means they’ve basically changed nothing other than make him squishier. It’s still gonna be a rush to place traps

If you place them after prep phase they can still be spotted and the enemy can hear them being placed and they can kill you.

Nah.


#2124

So, that mention of Rook armor was a moot point. There’s plenty of time to put down 2 reinforcements then get going. Not to mention that the higher your speed goes the more versatile you are due to your ability to roam and flank, and even just rotate away unheard, and with few Ops able to catch up.

They can, but players aren’t all forced to be on their drones so it’s less likely to. And yes, they can hear you placing traps, but the attackers don’t spawn immediately outside the building. It can take 5-10 seconds to reach the house and even then, that normally leads you to an entrance room that a Kapkan trap has no business on due to how obvious and predictable it would be.

So… You’ve got at least a minute before there’s any chance of the attackers being near you. And even then they don’t have wall hacks on you, and now it’s a two way street. It the hear you placing a trap, they can rush you. If you hear them approaching you… don’t place a trap.

Unnecessary pessimism.

I’m not claiming he’ll be meta, or even used often, but there’s currently no reason to pick him. This change will give players a reason to pick him.


#2125

You’ve never been killed by someone who had no business being there? I know when I started I got a number of kills because I had no idea where I was supposed to be and now I occasionally get killed by someone who shouldn’t be where they are cause it’s a terrible position.

Unless it’s an ash rush or recruit rush in which case they’ll be inside in like 10 seconds at most? Also a full minute is ridiculous usually they’re inside the building 30 seconds or less into the round.

And then you have a bunch of traps at the end of the round that you didn’t place.

I mean your comment was pretty pessimistic too. Apparently he’s unusable atm.

Not really you got 5 traps that are on doorways that deal 40 damage. Why not pick frost who will disable them and can be placed anywhere or lesion if you want less detectable traps or Ela if you want something loud that’ll give your team a heads up if someone is pushing.


#2126

Community seems to be split on the TTS recoil changes.
One half is talking about the adding skill ceiling and the benefits of predictability.
The other talks about the game becoming CSGO, how the game will become spray and prey, and the patterns being dumb.


#2127

People? Yes. Plenty of times I get lazy and don’t drone because no on plays their then poof someone plays there. Traps? Not since I was a noob. People kill you instantly. There’s no time to react when a player catches you off guard. On the other hand, Kapkan traps only detonate if you cross them, giving you all the time in the world to both notice them and destroy them.

Yeah, that’s true. If they’re throwing the game they’re often in quicker, but most players don’t do that.

And I hope you realise that them taking only 15 seconds to get into the building gives Kapkan a total of 1 minute to set up.

If they manage to pressure you all round and you can’t either get a kill from it or get killed, then both parties played horribly and balance of gadgets shouldn’t be based on mistakes.

Kapkan is one of the least competitive Ops in the game. There’s no reason to pick him, as everything he has done is offer is offered by other Ops, with bonuses. I haven’t seen Kapkan played in Ranked yet this season. Where as you’re completely discrediting a change that isn’t even live yet.

Frost traps are only useful if placed around the objective. The attackers are low on time and have to waste valuable time destroying the trap, often exposing themselves to a remaining defender in the process. Due to their sheer size, they are really easy to take out when the attackers have time and/or aren’t being pressured by the Defenders.

Lesion mines have incredibly small detonation radii and act as a deterrent to stop enemies committing, and heavily punishing the if they choose to.

Ela’s mines, IMO are the most powerful, but only if there’s a defender to follow up. Otherwise they’re the most useless.

Kapkan traps don’t give you a second opportunity. You walk through and boom. Instant large amount of damage. No last second chance to shoot it out or have a teammate cover you. Sure, the effect isn’t as crippling as the others can be, but it’s a lot of damage.

He won’t be amazing, by any means, but I expect an increase in pick rate.


#2128

Unless you’re rushing or the person who went in front of you vaulted over it.

Except according to you no good players set up their traps before the prep period is over.

No one else has set and forget instant kill traps

A 1 speed is generally not a roamer and stays near/on the obj so you can put up kapkan traps there but the later in the round it is the more likely you’ll have the enemy near you when you go to place it.

Uh they give you three opportunities. Frost trap knocks you down to 50 and it makes them vulnerable. Kapkan traps lower your health by 40 instead of instant killing.

Obviously. They’re giving him a speed boost he’ll get picked more for that reason alone. Doesn’t mean that the traps isn’t a shit change.


#2129

What do you mean by 3?
I believe what he means is that the kapkan traps do everything in 1 action. They explode, deal damage (the amount is not what we are talking about in this reply) and then they are done.
Frost traps are the same, they trap and deal damage, then are done. Same with Ela, but it requires a defender follow up.
Lesion is the odd ball in that his trap has the DoT and requires the attacker to pull the dart out, which if done quickly enough makes the effect negligible.


#2130

Kapkan traps used to kill you they were a one and done thing you messed up and missed it you died. Now you have 3 chances to avoid dying to them.

And aren’t anywhere near as limited and that trap is much more effective than a 40 damage explosion.


#2131

Unless you play poorly? Yeah, balance shouldn’t be based off mistakes.

Still gives you time to reinforce and get into position.

No one else’s gadget has neon sings pointing to the in the direction of it.

Hence why the speed buff is… Well… A buff. It means he’s no longer forced to stay near the obj. This means his EDDs are less likely to be get accidentally EMPed and they can be placed less predictability.

Talking about second chances before you get affected. Thought that was clear from the examples I gave.


#2132

Ok so you’re sitting around doing nothing other than reinforcing and then trying to set up 5 traps in 15 seconds. K good luck with that.

It also means we lose another anchor op to the ever increasing number of roamers and flankers.

Uh… none of them give you a second opportunity then… if they trigger you’re instantly affected for all of them. Like sure you vault a window you have the opportunity to shoot the frost trap (still might get grabbed) but that’s like breaking a door and then shooting the kapkan trap. If you activate the lesion trap you instantly take 10 damage and then take a dot. Conc mines instantly give you a disoriented effect.


#2133

Good job on deliberately misunderstanding as if that makes your point more valid.

I hardly consider it us losing an anchor if he was barely played. And considering we have Rook, Doc, Echo, Lesion, Smoke etc, the loss of Kapkan as an anchor isn’t a big deal.

Again, you misunderstand. If you walk into an Ela mine, you don’t instantly die, therefore Ela doesn’t instantly get value. She (or a teammate) has to follow up. If they don’t, then Ela mines are about as useful as spotting on a camera. Frost traps give you a last second opportunity to flick down and shoot them after vaulting.


#2134

I’m not the one that thinks it’s reasonable to only set up traps after the prep period is over.

Lesion is better off roaming since he’s the only one that can see which of his traps activated.

The vast majority of ops are roamers. 5 out of the 7 dlc ops are roamers with only 2 anchors added.

All the others instantly gets value though when triggered.

Walking through is activating the trap no shit it doesn’t give you second chances just like walking on a frost trap doesn’t give you a second chance to prevent it downing you or lesions 10 instant damage. Your second chance for the kapkan trap is looking at the frame of the door for the EDD.


#2135

Mid way through typing my long-drawn out reply, I realised that, for whatever reason, you’ve cemented your strong views in your mind and are refusing point blank to change, so, I’d rather not waste my time batting a ball back and forth for eternity.


#2136

Not my point. I simply said that Frost traps are similar to Kapkan traps in that they take effect immediately.
I was pointing out Sedo’s point in that the traps explode and then are done, if you don’t shoot or avoid the trap then you take the full effect all at once.
YOU are the person who is talking about the fact that it takes 3 traps to kill an operator, which is a problem you seem to have. You constantly take points of other people and then put your own point in, ignoring the original point and causing confusion.
@SedoUmbra best plan. No offence Tiger, but you are an unmovable object that causes constant frustration.


#2137

Sedo was saying that frost traps give you a second chance because he thinks that vaulting through a window with a trap is the same as walking through the red laser. I assumed he meant that by second chance he was talking about how your teammate could pick you up because saying vaulting through a window = walking through a laser is dumb.

Vaulting through the window and shooting the trap is equal to breaking the door and almost walking into the laser before you shoot it.

You seemed to have a problem understanding sedo’s point so maybe we both need to work on that…


#2138

oh god halp


#2139

No its not. When you’ve vaulted over the shield or window or whatever, you’ve committed to the movement that will lead you to you triggering the trap. The equivalent of almost waking into a Kapkan trap is almost vaulting the shield.

If you want it broken down further:

Imagine there’s a shield in a door way with a frost trap beneath it. Imagine knowing the trap is there and you vault it. Having done this 10 times, how many times did the trap get you?

Now set up the same scenario but with a Kapkan trap behind the shield.
How many times do you survive?

See the difference now? No second chance, unless you’re PENTA-Pengu. Instant value.

And even then, if no one can follow up, the value you get out of it is severly limited. But Kapkan traps get full value once activated, like Gu mines.


#2140

Anyone know whats up with this?


#2141

serious case of rubber banding issues where the server caught up at the wrong time