Now that Caira is less cheese and Val a reliable medic, what are we going to do about Laz?


#1

Patch 1.3 addressed Val’s issues with healing and a 66.69% time buff to her tranq gun. Which now makes her a pretty good medic and support hybrid.

Caira will now be a more healing focused medic, rather than doing godly medic things and then some.

While Laz, jeez Laz. What are we going to about you?

No one seems to really know what to do about him. He’s a powerhouse at lower level play where he can break inexperienced monsters while at a higher level and competitive play (lol do pople even use him in tourneys?) he’s a clutch to the team despite your teams best efforts they can only harpoon the monster and shield you for so long.

And once someone goes down, oh gawd you better pray to God that the monster is either shit or your team can scare the monster off with the damage. The later which I have to say doesn’t happen enough. Monsters just love downed hunters as Laz. XD

We have talked about how we could tweak him to be more reliable at higher level play while not brokenly overpowering for inexperienced players.


#2

I just think Laz’s device shouldn’t revive so quick. Currently it has these benefits:

a) Revive dead people
b) Revives really fast
c) Doesn’t leave a strike on the revived player

Take one away like reviving really fast and he’s still viable with benefits that make him unique.


#3

Incorrect. He needs to be able to revive dead people because he can’t keep people alive and the monster can easily kill incapped players. He needs to be able to prevent strikes or else the group takes damage in progress way too easily. And he needs fast rezs or else Kraken can constantly interrupt a rez just by ranging the corpse down, unless you removed the revive interrupt from his ranged attack in which case you would just be nerfing lazaurus unnecessarily.


#4

Did… Did you read what the guy above just said? Laz is underpowered and any competent monster player can deal with him. I totally agree with him. Why would you want to take away his only benefit?


#5

Just leave Laz where he is, he is an optional medic and ist alright where he is. The Monster needs to change his playstyle around Laz and everythings fine. Sure you wont find him on tournaments but he isnt designed for that, high risk playstyle for the hunters.

Lazarus cant be changed easily without totally changing his game design, but if you’ve got a coordinated team Laz can still be a pain, just Laz doesnt work good for pubs against better monsters because your team needs to exactly fit their playstyle for Laz. If just one guy messes up the team is dead. Other medics are more forgiving, however if the monster is making mistakes, its also very punishing for them- so it is fine i think.


#6

Increasing range of his heal burst (like tier 4 medic’s) and decreasing cooldown on cloak seem like reasonable changes to me. Cloak duration can be decreased, as long as it’s cooldown is shorter.


#7

cough


#8

I think laz should be left alone he’s not amazing or useless, just right.


#9

Yeah I did read, and that is my response. And I won’t be taking away his only benefit, he can still revive dead people without a strike.


#10

I mostly play public games as Markov, and I’ve found that taking increased reload speed makes having a Laz much more viable. So long as the monster is taking damage he can’t eat, so once someone dies I try to get some distance and keep the assault rifle trained on his head. If the monster wants to sit there and try to eat the body, that’s fine with me because I can reload faster than he can get anything. If he tries to come after me, then we have our downed hunter back.


#12

I love Laz, nothing wrong with him. My only suggestion is that you should be able to toggle the cloak so you can use it when you need to. Other than that I find him fun to play with.


#13

I’ve discovered a Laz Strategy that works (read: viable) against Experienced Monster Players.

However, it requires that your teammates know about said strategy, and the underlining goal behind it. It doesn’t guarantee a win, but makes it useable, and really does need your team to basically bend to Laz’s short comings.


#14

The problem against a good monster laz never gets the chance to rez.


#15

No, the speed revives it what allows him to live. Without that the monster can just body camp and win.


#16
  1. What do you think about giving the Lazarus device like a vastly improved range, say +300% or more?

This will prevent monsters from camping a certain hunter non-stop with Lazarus being unable to do anything.

But to balance against spamming such a ranged device, the cooldown can be increased by like +100%, so the player will be forced to use it strategically instead of mere spam?

  1. The other issue lies in his escape ability. Unlike Caira, he cannot heal spam himself. Unlike Val, he cannot tranquilize and outrun.

He only has a short cloak. That seems to work against Wraith and Kraken quite well, in my opinion, but probably needs a little CD reduction or length increase, or the monster will pound on him real soon after cloak.

The problem, really, is Goliath, and probably Behemoth later, as they have flame or molten attacks that hit while the target is cloaked. There needs a slight counter to that. I am suggesting either temporary invulnerability for two seconds to escape, or maybe a teleport or something.


#17

I think now your buffing him to much, monsters need to be able to counter him by using flame attacks for it to be fair, especially if your increasing the range of the device by a whopping 300%


#18

Right now when I play hunter, I main medic. And Laz is my man! When I play him my first instinct isn’t to run in and Rez a downed teammate, because any monster who knows what laz does is going to camp that body. I have destroyed many elite monsters who try to bait me by simply not rezing anyone. That may sound like a bad Lazarus player but honestly in higher level play, if the monster ignores his health for one strike that’s a good deal. If he flees because of health damage and you get the Rez that’s even better. In high level play if you can simply stay out of sight then you can basically (excuse my language :grin:) mindfuck the monster, sometimes to the point of death.


#19

On balance I’m pretty certain now in my idea of what changes should happen to Laz, but that doesn’t make me a good person to talk about it with any more. For me it’s this…

  1. Remove his ability to revive incapped players (only revive dead ones). This puts the advantage for the monster in the period immediately after downing, as opposed to the ongoing battle afterwards thanks to the strikes
  2. Allow Laz to revive bodies that have been eaten, but with a strike as normal OR make bodies inedible when Laz is in range but reduce the time he has to be able to revive the body, after which they get a strike as normal (not both)
  3. Increase the range of the device, but make it a longer cast time

My opinion on the above is that they allow Laz more flexibility in getting the revive against good monsters, while at the same time giving lesser skilled monsters more time to try to stop a revive.

These three things have to all be introduced together. No revives on incapped players means the monster has to keep fighting or properly attack the body to death and risk good damage as it tries to get in to the situation to eat (easier than people think though), this particularly helps new monsters who can feel free to go on attacking rather than body camp (which they’re not so good at).

Giving Laz the ability to stop eating, or allowing Laz to revive eaten players with a strike, keeps the Laz game open and stops the domino effect of losing someone to a competent monster quickly spiralling to a hunter wipe out. It stops good monsters from shutting the game down thanks to the fact there is no resistance, and improves the situation for worse monsters as they’re more likely to be in a position where they can make meaningful damage on the hunters.

Specifically the stopping eating thing is balanced off by the shorter time period to revive without a strike. It forces a very specific period of time that the monster needs to be aware of and capitalise on to stop Laz’s revives, but do so by protecting the body not by just trying to wolf it down. As long as the monster can do this for (just as an example) 15 seconds then it’s won the strike on the hunter. It may well find that hunter gets revived, but in reality it’s probably no worse off than it would have been when facing Caira or Val in that regard.

Giving him range to revive helps to cut out a simplistic monster tactic while increasing his cast time makes timing his revives more important, and helps out new monster players.

On a side note, I’m firmly of the belief that people complaining about Laz’s survivability in the sense of needing a cloak buff are ignoring the fact that he’s the only medic to actually have an ability that gives him a strong chance of evading a monster, by having the cloak in the first place. When CD reduction perk affects the cloak as well as everything else I feel that people will be happier, so bug fix that first and then look at survivability on his own. Laz paired up with Hank or Sunny will be very survivable, paired up with Cabot and Bucket he is less so but, inversely, punishing monsters is easier. As a team you have to ask yourself what type of Laz player you’ve got, and how best to support him in the task he’s got to perform, and not expect that just because he’s Laz that he should always have a good chance of escaping the heat.


#20

Laz’s lack of active healing creates a lot of weaknesses, which is why he so bad against higher level players. It makes hank almost a requirement to dome any good monster as they will beeline straight to your trapper knowing you cant heal them. In a dedicated fight i can focus the assault and camp him, good luck chasing me off with no decent way to deal consistent damage.

I dont really have to focus a hunter when the medic can only heal by moving close to them. I can spread damage and by the time i down someone it doesnt matter if they can be revived because i down another person right afterwards. If laz tries to heal i can focus on him and probably hit the hunter he’s healing as well.

Laz is just too predictable because he only has a few ways to play.


#21

Indeed, he has no healing but he also has a diminishing ability to revive people. You can’t take away his healing ability (which is fine) but then not protect his ability to actually bring people back to life at full (or near to full) health.