Niaccurshi's Stage 2 suggestion series: #1 Strikes

As always I preface this with the fact I play on average about 20 hours a month of actual game time, that I am a solo queue pub player, and that I generally play Arcade. Also, this’ll be a long one, strap in.


[details=A brief preface]First up, I really can’t stress enough how much better the game feels for me compared to legacy, a vast… vast number of things have improved seemingly immeasurably. That said, there are some areas that I feel that, if improved, would really put the game on that next level that would curb initial feelings of imbalance or frustration that could turn new people off.

“Better matchmaking” is of course always an acceptable answer, however there are so many variables that go in to matchmaking, the most important being “skill level” which can actually be inaccurate for people with low player hours, that I think there are other things that can be dealt with in game to provide that safety net for when matchmaking doesn’t hit the right note.[/details]

This is number 1 in a series of posts intended to silo each suggestion to keep discussion focused and less confused. I also know that devs prefer to have individual topics to look over rather than sprawling mass-suggestion mega posts!


Also see:

1: Strikes
2: The new dome cooldown mechanics
3: The chase meta
4: Perk imbalance
5: Evolve’s game pacing
6: Buffs
7: Player awareness


#The strike system

Right now I believe that the incap and strike system is doing too much work. An incap lessens the Hunter teams ability to function, it weakens that Hunter in future fights, it lowers the dome timer and it adds to the drop ship timer. This is a lot of benefit for the monster regardless of the amount of effort put in. The argument, of course, is that at higher level these strikes are hard fought and so they need to count. The problem is that at any other level strikes are not hard fought at all, and they start the snowball effect of a pubstomp.

In general I think that strikes need to put a hurdle in the road for the hunters, and definitely need to help reward the monster in the late game… but they shouldn’t put a roadblock up in front of the hunters from the very first moment it happens. How would I approach it?

  1. Strikes no longer give health penalties. Strikes put hunters on their ass, they put hunters out of the game for longer as the game goes on, all the while the monster gets stronger. Hunters don’t need to lose max health.
  2. Strikes give greater dropship timer buffs to the monster. Overall I feel the monster should be getting their end-game benefit from fighting and downing hunters, not running away to evolve. Evolutions still need to add time to the dropship, just maybe not as much as they currently do.
  3. Decrease the time it takes for a hunter to revive an incapped hunter. The team as a whole is already a person down, and then another person leaves the fight to try and level up that advantage again. Let’s not penalise people that choose to do this so bad by making it so easy for the monster to interrupt. The monster already gets “time off” while this happens from the full co-ordinated assault of the hunters.
  4. This is the big one… Let hunters revive themselves. They’ll still gain the strike, but they’ll be able to get back into the fight without another hunter coming to their aid. Naturally the time this takes would have to be longer than the current revive time if being picked up by another hunter, and would need to be interrupted by being hit as per usual.

The end effect of this should be that if a hunter goes down they know they aren’t necessarily a liability in the next couple of fights, just that they are on borrowed time since 2 strikes would still mean auto-death on the next incap. Reviving a hunter will feel less futile and the team will have an option to keep soldiering on against a monster and let the person get themselves up to further aid against body-camping as a tactic (monsters would still be able to kill a person by body camping just as easy as now, but kiting around a body to trick the naive into a revive would be less viable)

This would keep the hunters strong in the early game where they should be, against a stage 1 and early stage 2 monster, but absolutely weaker against a stage 3 monster that has taken the time to build up strikes on a key member of the hunter team or two.

One important balancing aspect of all this will be ensuring that monsters can get those strikes a tiny bit easier, though it’s important not to go too far because hunters being too easy to kill at the end game is not going to create exciting experiences.

####TL;DR: Strikes need to be an investment for the future, not for in 20 seconds time. Strikes, the act of having someone down for so long, the weakness it brings to the team… it exacerbates differences in skill level to too high a degree and moves games away from being close.


Thanks for reading, the intent of this is not to try and make hunters or monsters stronger than the other, it’s a discussion about an element of the game that I feel could be improved for a better experience for all players.

5 Likes

I actually felt as if the Strikes should be lowered but not removed.

I just had a fight with “infinite” strikes playing as the Monster and it was shit when I had a lot of health bars removed and the Hunters just got back full health with no penalty

(Played Arena :wink: )

2 Likes

Maybe first strike is penalty free after that it stacks on the pain, remember a monster loses health permanently against even a low mid level team every dome, hunters need to feel this as well.

1 Like

I don’t agree that they do need to feel it in a comparable way. Remember that after 2 strikes they will die instantly and have to wait to come back on the dropship, that very much IS feeling it. :wink: Not to mention that as the game progresses the monster unlocks more powerful, easier hitting, and more readily available abilities, so the comparative health of a hunter decreases every time the monster stages up anyway.

I think that’s why the strikes are there though.
At anything past mid tier play removing the health penalty would result in monsters getting curb stomped every game.
But the health penalty shifting to strike 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2 would be a benefit to new players without too much punishment for amature/pro players

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As I said in the OP, if values need to be tweaked to help monsters deal with the new “never reduced HP” reality, then that’s fine. I’m not making suggested changes in a vacuum here :slight_smile:

What I don’t like with your sugestions is that you A: Want more fights out of Hunt and to make it even easier to find a monster. B: You want to buff the Hunters even though they have way more advantages than the monsters, that will eventualy become unplayable at this rate.

2 Likes

I’d like to stop you there. I don’t want anything to be “easier” or “harder” for a particular side. I want the game to be more engaging at all levels, but specifically engaging at low to mid levels which is where the majority of the player base will reside.

I really don’t welcome in my discussions this “you want Hunter/Monster to be better” talk, because it’s both false and boring. I’m interested in an interesting and balanced game, whether that is the monsters or hunters getting changes. It’s also a quick and easy way to turn a discussion in to a fight. Take my word, I’m not intending to make the monster’s life hard because I want hunters to have an easier time, and engage with the discussion based on that reality.

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I was there, too~

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Fine. I believe you when you say that you want the game to be balanced, but this will not result in balance! What this will result in is a mode that used to be a game where you didn’t need to be a good fighter to win! That is exactly why I started to play this game! Sneaking or tracking could win most of the game!

That is just a distant dream however in the current more well-paced evolve. Getting even more distant for every patch that promotes less hunting. And with your sugestions, the “wait at realay til S3” strategy won’t just be useable, it will become meta.

Don’t get me wrong, I do know that Legacy hunt had a lot of flaws, but they were either handled in the wrong way, or not handled at all. In that case they just gave up making a game where the fights weren’t the main focus.

1 Like

It’s clear we’re not going back to Legacy so I think it’s time that Legacy super-fans let that go :slight_smile:

Anyway, I don’t see how changing the strikes structure this way has anything to do with making the game less “hunt” like, I think you may have got your topics mixed.

Not really. By making the strikes less punishing, by making the hunters more reviveable, by making the monsters get less time on the dropship by evolving you will make the previously mentioned “wait at relay until the monster comes” strategy a lot more viable. I just want hunt to be about hunting again.

And I understand that Legacy hunt will never return, but by doing things like this, you will make a bad situation worse. I’m not gonna let that happen.

2 Likes

I disagree with this fairly strongly. Right now if hunters know that if they’re in a fight they’re just going to get strikes, then there is no incentive for them to engage. I have been in games where the hunters have been in one fight, got two strikes, not done enough damage to the monster and they’ve said “Let’s just wait at relay”, because THEY KNOW that if they carry on trying to hunt they are just handing more and more of an advantage to the monster.

If anything taking the penalties in the early game away from hunters for being downed, you encourage them to keep going at the monster.

Hunters choosing to stop hunting and going to the relay to wait is a different issue that comes from many different places of potential problems in the games mechanics, and as such needs its own solution regardless of anything else.

1 Like

Trial and error. No school for evolve balancing.:expressionless:

That’s what you are talking about right?

What?! That was you??? Lol

Would you like me to give details on that little Arena match? ;p

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No sir! </10char>

One word : NO

2 Likes

I think evolving should just raise the dropship timer to a certain point. For example, if the monster wasn’t able to get any strikes at S1 and then evolves, the time would be raised from 10 to 30 seconds. However, if the monster got a strike, the time would be raised from 25 to 30 seconds.

This would help out struggling monsters but not screw over hurting hunters.

Strikes…
I like the idea of self reviving. This is definitely necessary at lower stages. Monsters gain too much imidiate benefit from a down. Perhaps we should bring back the medpack in order to limit the amount of quick revives a hunter gets.

1 Like

I really dont know about this. For once it can be really frustrating as a Hunter to die quicker and permantly with 2 strikes, however as a Monster I really rely on stacking 2 strikes on 1 person and killing them outright.

Ok, I still dont know how to feel about that.

I think this goes a little too far. However if the Medic could revive themselves that would be great. When somebody besides the medic is down, they can be revived from range. The Medic cant and thats unfair.