My Guess/Suggestion for what 8.0 holds, or what 9.0 should


#1

This is a rough, general guess as to what 8.0 might bring, or, if 8.0 is not like this, then perhaps 9.0 should be.


The Goals

  • Make the game about boss fights
  • Make Flee til 3 an awful strategy(no flee til three=stronger stage three’s)
  • Make the game less swingy
  • Balance offensive and defensive comps

Trapper-Monster Relationship

  • Increase dome duration to 120 seconds
  • Increase dome radius to 65m
  • Smell range increased to 75m
  • Increase monster armor at all stages by ~5%
  • Increase dome cooldown to 75 seconds
    • Dart duration increased to 40 seconds(44 sec with elite)
    • Bucket UAV tag duration increased by 5 seconds
    • Increase S1 meats needed by 2, and S2 meats needed by 3
  • Increase 1 and 2 meat fauna spawn rate by ~15%
    • Satellite cooldown increased
  • Increase net monster damage by ~10%
  • Decrease monster health at stage one by ~10% and stage two by ~5%

Assault-Monster Relationship

  • Decrease damage(whether that be through range, reload, accuracy, velocity, or DPS) dealt by assault primaries(LG, FT, Combat Shotgun, Autofire Shotgun, Lance) by ~10%, but increase damage(whether that be through range, reload, accuracy, velocity, or DPS) dealt by assault secondaries(AR, Chaingun, RL, Mortars, AA) by ~5%
  • Increase Behemoth health pool by 10%
  • Increase personal shield cooldown to 40 seconds
  • Railgun damage increased by 30% and increase damage amp cooldown

Defensive-Offensive Comp Relationship

  • Decrease Sunny’s defensive potential(in progress already), increase offensive potential(increase damage, not activation radius of nuke)
  • Increase Bucket and Cabot cloak duration to 25 sec
  • Decrease Bucket and Cabot cloak cooldown to 25 sec
  • Sentry Gun accuracy increased
  • Increase all support cloak radius to 15m

Medic-Strike Relationship

  • Increase Downed Hunter heals by ~10%
  • on Val, decrease the battery it uses revive downed hunters, not the healing rate on downed hunters
  • Increase Lazarus device range by 25%, while still buffing Laz HB heal on downed hunters
  • Increase strikes allowed to 3
  • Decrease strike penalty to 15%, or 240 HP
  • Increase Medic self heal by 10%

(the changes on down are a little more opinionated)

Slim

  • Increase self heal per burst by 10%

Parnell

  • Increase SS duration by 2 seconds

Emet

  • Allow pre-emptive cavalry calls, as it SAYS IN THE TIPS
  • Lower damage
  • Buff healing

Gorgon

  • Already receiving changes

Val

  • I don’t know how much cancer she is to blame for, so we’ll have to see

Tech Sgt. Hank

  • Shorten application time of shield charger by 10%
  • Cut the slow effect of using shield charger in half

The Goals

  • Make the game about boss fights
  • Make Flee til 3 an awful strategy(no flee til three=stronger stage three’s)
  • Make the game less swingy
  • Balance offensive and defensive comps

Explanation

Chase time = time spent hunting a stage 1 and 2(my own definition, don’t get your jimmies rustled)

Numbered Paragraphs = direct changes

[] = indirect effects, notes

1a. Well, this would certainly force monsters to fight more. 120 sec of mitigation damage would be about the same as just trying to down the trapper and escaping, but currently stage one monsters cannot down a trapper(see 1d).

[Because the favorable option would now to down the trapper, Laz would be more useful in preventing strikes.]

1b. This would allow for more domes to be thrown, as hunters would not need to get as close. But, this would dampen the gap between good domes and bad domes, seeing that monsters would have slightly more places to hide in those 180 seconds. (i)The smell range would be buffed accordingly.

[A dome range increase would make the trappers job at low levels easier. Smell range increase would hurt chase comp, slightly.]

1c. To make use of these longer domes, monsters would need more armor, to fight of course, and not feel as punished. (i) To utilize this armor, monster need a tad bit more time to fill it up, so dome cooldown should increase slightly, to 75 sec. (ia) However, with a longer cooldown, there’d be less opportunity to trap the monster, so monsters would need to require more meats to evolve. (ib) Abe’s dart increased by 5 seconds because of dome cooldown increase. (ic) Bucket’s tag duration increased by 5 seconds, same reason. (ii) With a longer cooldown, and requiring more food for armor, spawn rates should go up, but only for smaller wildlife(one or two meats), splitting up monster meals more that would increase bird spawn rates, helping track the monster. (iia) Jack’s satellite cooldown increased to 65 seconds(+5 seconds) seeing as more birds, resulting in easier tracking, would go against his design of poor tracking but good CC.

[Offensive comps would become stronger, being able to scare off monsters with damage, being able to shred through that armor. Longer chases would leave more time for Gorgon, the ambush monster to do her work, although I know fixes for her are on the way. Behemoth can fill up his armor faster than other monsters, so this would help Bob more. More birds spawning means less sneaking, so Jack, Griffin, and Abe would get helped. It also would help lower leveled hunters keep track of the monster.]

1d. As well as a defense buff, monsters would need an offensive buff in order to down trapper to escape domes. For monsters meant to be easy, melee damage should be the primary upgrade; for combo monsters, a mix of both melee damage and ability damage, or a focus on ability damage should be the case instead. (i) With this potentially scary damage, and now increased armor, health would need to go down at all stages, but primarily the first two.

[With Sunny nerfs, this 10% more damage should be enough, but health would be sacrificed inside a dome no matter what; mitigating would be a skill.]

2a. Shifting the assaults damage from primaries to secondaries allows damage inside a larger dome to be more consistent. (i) Because behemoth is scary up close, and assaults would be able to keep their distance and still yield good damage, his health pool would need to go up.

[This would also help getting more damage on Kraken, who is A tier, but his combo ability coupled with the 10% damage increase should keep him afloat(lol get it he flies).]

2b. Because of their reliability, and the fact that domes last 120 seconds, assaults would need to be more vulnerable, so monsters could target the assault if they wanted to get a few seconds of freedom out of the 120. 40 second cooldown on the personal shield should make them more cautious and vulnerable. (i) Because assaults would go down easier, Cabot would need to rely on them less and rely more on himself. So the amp would need a slight nerf and the railgun a buff.

[With a more vulnerable assaults, damage supports would have a bigger role in scaring off monsters after an assault down.]

3a. Sunny is undoubtedly a problem, so nerfing her defensive and chase potential would be great. It’s already been confirmed she’s getting nerfs though. This would allow the trapper to be downed easier in order to escape the dome.

3b. Cabot and Bucket could use a defensive buff, because they would have problems keeping the trapper alive in such a forced fight with a powerful monster. A longer cloak could keep the trapper safe longer. (i) This cloak could also need a shorter cooldown.

[A better cloak could make Bucket a very mixed offensive/defensive support, seeing as he can put damage on the monster while cloaked through his sentries, he could play minor roles in each front.]

3c. Bucket would also need a sentry accuracy increase, seeing as a range buff goes nowhere if they miss the target. It would slightly increase their damage.

[It would also provide more synergy with Laz, seeing as the sentries would be even better at hitting weak-points.]

3d.Increase cloak range, seeing as it’s only used in self defense currently, and it would need the range seeing that trappers would be heavily targeted at early stages.

[It’s also annoyingly small at 10m, just me?]

4a. Because trappers, and sometimes assaults, would go down more, medics would need to be able to pick up bodies easier. (i) Val can already pick up downed hunters fast, but it uses a lot of her battery to do so, leaving other teammates in danger. (ii) Laz at low levels would not benefit from a range buff, because monsters do not know how to properly guard bodies. At high levels, players could take advantage of it, although it would be minimal.

4b. Because trappers, and sometimes assaults, would go down just because the dome has been thrown, it would be a bit of a risk to even throw it after having a strike or two currently. So the number of strikes before dropship should go down, as to not punish doming too much. (i) Three strikes should leave a hunter with about the same max health as they have currently with two.

4c. Because of increased monster damage, medics would need better self-sustain. The main point of the damage increase is the ability to add on strikes, and to escape domes. However, because of how vital a medic strike/down/death is, they’d need better protection, and a monster would have to be leagues better to grant themselves the time to first take out the support and trapper in order to kill the medic.

[Again, this would show Lazarus’s true power.]

5a. Slim needs better self sustain, especially with Sunny nerfs.

6a. Parnell needs a bit of a bump. He gets stopped too much by range, so the overall assault range buff will help, but 2 seconds extra of SS would allow him to use the move speed to get to the monter easier or just stay on its tail. Either way, 2 seconds, to me, isn’t too much.

7a. Respawn Beacon is kind of garbage, just let us use it pre-emptively

[It’d be fun, right?]

7b. His damage could go down, with longer chase time, and him being so darn good at getting damage off on the chase.

7c. Healing could use a slight bump, whether that be shorter HB CD, or straight up more health per burst.

8a. N/A

9a. N/A

10a. With more chase time, but longer domes, Tech Sgt. is gonna need a little help. Inside the dome, I’d increase his damage potential by shortening the time it takes to be defensive by a tad. (i) Also, lagging behind teammates while applying shield isn’t fun, so buff his speed while doing so.


And that’s about it. I have a feeling the dome duration is going to go up, it’s the only change I could see happening that really “forces the monster to fight”. After that, I made changes accordingly and helped out a few characters.

We’ll just have to see if I’m right when 8.0 is released.

Besides that,
What do you think? Specific areas that could be added? Taken out? Anymore ideas you guys have?

Chrono :sunny:


Stage 3 Issues and Suggestions Thread
Let's start this one off with a tease, shall we? - The Shared Dome
#2

I want to read this right now and digest it, but I simply can’t. I’ll come back soon. I noticed you wanted 180 second dome duration and assault damage reduced with monster damage increased. With the health changes that I read so far, the game would be decided by one dome. I haven’t read all of it, but it seems like games would pretty much always be decided before stage 3. If my hypothesis is correct, that would completely break the balance and flow of the game for the worse. If I’m wrong, then these changes would likely change the game to become so different that it would require a long time to re-balance for all variables included.

One another quick thing I want to add right now about the medic/strike relationship is that the hunter incap health is low enough that it only takes around 1 of each monster ability to kill it out completely from starting incap health. When a hunter team is down a full class, the overall effectiveness of that team drops drastically. So much so, that it has many times felt to me like it’s now up to the monster to exploit the situation as much as possible and many times this results in a nearly guaranteed win many minutes after the first full kill with very little logical counterplay from the hunters, following the kill. If the medic is still as easy to kill as it is currently, I think that’d be a real issue here.


#3

Hunter incap health is double normal it’s actually much harder to kill Incapped player damage wise than not.


#4

Most games would be over in the period of a single dome since one side will claim such a large advantage the other side cannot possibly hope to come back from. Either the hunters will do so much health damage with the domes that last 3 times as long, or the monster will get strikes on important hunters and secure an even bigger advantage with 10% extra damage on top of what they do now. As someone who has played both sides, and if given the opportunity, will continue to play both sides, this is not desirable.

You would be overbuffing cabot here. Do you remember the days when cabot was a menace? Well this change would be bringing them back.

Nah, Laz would be less useful because he couldn’t keep the 180 second dome up.

Monster damage relative to the health pool of hunters and their ability to heal is balanced on a very thin line, small changes mean big things.

It seems like this change means that you would need to evolve to 2 stage 2 asap or you would lose. I don’t think a stage 1 monster could survive 180 seconds against a defensive team and he would be required to kill the trapper ASAP against offensive teams.


#5

Depends on what hunter is downed and who his friends are. If you downed the medic, then it is as easy as hell. They also take damage over time so it isn’t like the doubled health bar means that it takes twice as much of your damage to kill them. Unless the support is hank, they aren’t helping the corpse stay alive. And behemoth has a massive amount of damage towards incapped players.


#6

Good point, and the intentions of the damage increase were to put on strikes and escape domes, not kill the medic. added 4c.


#7

Interesting ideas, I’ll give you that. :smile:

The only thing I really disagree with is the 180 second dome times. As AuroraSymphony said, the game would be decided by one dome. If monster gets caught at stage 1, game over. If monster gets caught in one bad dome at stage 2, as long as the hunters are somewhat organised it will be game over. I feel the dome is fine where it is. It’s easy enough to land one, but it’s not up for too long so the monster isn’t trapped for what feels like an eternity.

A lot of the changes you listed I can only see as good changes. So I would be interested to see them in game. :wink:


#8

sorry, brain fart. My intention was always double the time. Somehow I figured 60x2=180. Idk. long day I guess.

Just like he can’t keep a 60 second dome up now? I mean there is no difference really. If laz can’t do 120 why couldn’t he do 60? In this case the monster could just kill the team right?
If that is the case, then that’s why monster health was reduced.


#9

The monster, with increased damage, could down the trapper, but would have trouble at stage one downing anyone but the trapper, and would run out of health if targeting anyone else for too long. At stage 2, the monster would have the potential to down the trapper, assault, and support, and, if he didn’t lose to much health, win the game. At stage 3, the damage would be high enough to kill the medic, even with support help.

Basically, if TRS can eradicate flee til 3, we can have stronger monsters. That was my thought process.


#10

I think the change further emphasizes the ability to keep domes up for longer. The difference is 10% extra monster damage. And yes, the damage change might be enough to allow monsters to steamroll over hunter teams. I would say a 20% damage buff for monsters would be absurd and even 10% is a bit too far out there for my own liking. The health change is insufficient and is at least somewhat counteracted by the assault damage change and the 5% extra armor.


#11

That makes perfect sense and I hope that does indeed happen.

If at stage one the monster has a very hard time killing either support or medic, then what makes killing trapper easier with both support and medic healing, shielding, damaging or boosting him/her. To me that sounds a lot more difficult.

Sorry if I misunderstood something, didn’t get much sleep so I’m as tired as hell. :smile:


#12

Personally, I am not sure what changes should be made to the game to stop monsters from doing too much damage mitigation in domes. My first thought is making their defenses be reliant on them being offensive so that monsters who hide in corners do not have as much of a barrier to work with. Something like 50% of the damage they deal gets converted into armor, or they take 20% less damage when they have damaged a hunter in the last 8 seconds.


#13

I’m just making it reliable, and it actually let’s assault do damage from a distance and stay alive, with a longer CD on the shield and what not.

Well, the general idea is just enough to down the trapper, that’s why I put ~10%. 10% may not be needed, especially with sunny nerfs.

The main idea of stage one fights is that monsters almost have the brute strength to kill a team, but not enough health. Then as the battle goes on, the damage goes up a bit, and the health goes up a lot.


#14

By lowering the damage of their primary weapon and not increasing the damage of their secondary enough to prioritize it over the primary, you reduce the damage the assault is capable of doing.

The largest amount I would consider buffing monster damage by is 6%. I consider that to be outside the range covered by ~10%.

If the monster isn’t able to basically end the game at stage 1, then a doubled duration dome will mean that he can’t possibly do enough mitigation to give him a chance to come back into the game. If he is able to end the game at stage 1, then the doubled duration dome doesn’t mean shit. If he evolves to stage 2 without being caught, and without a significant enough difference in skill, he just wins.

But we were talking about Lazaurus, weren’t we? I believe 10% damage on the monster would be enough to kill the trapper fast enough to make the other changes insignificant.


#15

If Im going to be honest, I doubt anything good will happen in the next title update. Thats how its been for the past few title updates, anyways.


#16

The assault secondaries have more range, so they would be firing more, even when the monster is mitigating, so it would overall balance the net damage because the secondaries would be firing more. Maybe 5% and 10% wouldn’t work, but the general idea is to make the damage at range better, by sacrificing close range damage, in order to prevent mitigating so much.

That’s the whole point. Mitigating isn’t supposed to be viable. The monster is forced to fight and down the trapper to escape, and ultimately win. This forces fights, which means no flee til three, which means stronger stage threes, in theory.


#17

Yes I get the general idea.

Yes I know that’s the whole point. But I dislike the idea of games ending within the time period of a single dome. It seems to me that either monsters will be able to steam roll over the hunters with the ~10% damage buff, or that monsters will take too much damage in domes regardless of whatever tactics they take and will just die off too quickly.


#18

I agree that the burstiness needs to be slowed down which would also make a lot of flee till three less common. You can’t increase the dome times by large amount without raising monster survivability a lot. Right now a monster who doesn’t run the entire dome will lose significant health depending on his skill. A match can be ended in a single dome for either side so doubling the time would pretty much be a death sentence with the health nerf. My suggestion for slowing the game down some would be to increase the health/armor ft either side a significant amount with dome time being increased accordingly.


#19

Nice Idea, finally a dome is a success.

Why not, if we have more time so give monsters what back. Its fine.

Why?

Sounds good.

Bad idea.

Ohh ohh Assault is almost dead then.

Increase yes but why increase the cooldown? Its buffing and nerfing and then bucket is still not good.

Best idea ever, finally my mates dont tramp on my feeds anymore, if they wanna get the cloak.

Yes some Bucket love!!!

All ideas are good and nice!

He is so UP atm…

Please yes its all nice!

Dont touch her healing. Nerf everything but not her healing :smiley:


#20

Increasing lazurus device range is not cool man. Laz will revive people way to easy, monster can stop laz revive by hitting him now imagine a cloaked reviving bodies and from a range. That’s a headache

Now I like your idea on the assault decreasing their primaries and buffing the secondaries. They still have same total damage out put but just need to use all of their weapons now. Instead of just spamming their primary the whole time