Monster's lack of incentive to engage before stage 3


#1

So i’ve seen around a lot lately people making the claim that the game has no real incentive for monsters players to engage the hunter team before he reaches stage 3, and just hiding/farming the first 10 minutes. throughout the alpha (played on PC because the PS4 alpha server’s were screwed, and in last weekends techinical test for the PS4 ive played a total of about 65 or so monster games, winning about 60 of them) and so im here to try to put these rumors to rest. Also not trying to brag with the monster W/L ratio, just a statement of fact so you guys can see im not some novice monster player or anything.

First off, anytime you’re the monster, and are at full armor - YOU SHOULD TRY TO ENGAGE THE HUNTER TEAM, mayve not full on face smash them, but personally, as a level 1 goliath once i have full armor i try to lure the hunters into a trap, and try to get a strike on them, im careful to keep my distance as long as i can, relying heavily on boulder toss. using hit and run tactics i try to drag the hunters through hostile wild life, staying far enough away where a trapper is really gambling when they throw down the arena, because me being far enough away there is a solid chance i can escape it in time.

REASONING BEHIND ENGAGING AT FULL ARMOR:
—When you’re at full armor, and u keep eating to evolve -> you’re wasting precious resources (wildlife) and every strike you put on the hunters makes you that much stronger in comparison at higher levels.
—When you evolve you recover a small portion of your HP (at least it seems this way, i could be wrong though) so using up at least all your armor whenever possible is always a plus, if you can at least get a strike out of it.
—In an ideal situation, you should be at 0 Armor when youre ready to evolve, otherwise that armor, and resources have gone to waste, and you’re not making any additional advances on the hunter team.

REASON FOR ENGAGING BEFORE STAGE 3:
—Once you’re stage 3, the hunters will likely stop pursuing you, and fall back to defend the reactor, which has got to be the WORST possible position for the monster player to be in.
—many hunters have gadgets they can throw down, up to 5. allowing them to heavily fortify a particular area, and when they’re given PLEANTY of time to do so, can make even a 100% stage 3 Goliath break apart like wet tissue paper.
—You are plenty strong enough at stage 2 to take on the hunters, and i often find that 100% armor at stage 2 in the fighting in the wildlife is MUCH easier than smashing my 100% stage 3 face into their reactor defenses

Now playing as the monster, i personally find hit and run tactics to almost always be better than full frontal engagement (especially as Goliath) and i often try my hardest to completely avoid leveling up to stage 3 if i know i can beat the hunters in stage 2.
a monster’s mobility is one of the huge advantages he has over the hunters, and that goes beyond just getting away from them to farm, shear itself is a dangerous challenge to the hunters, and if they’re busy trying to keep up with you and take you down, it’s much more likely they wont realize a friend of theirs has been caught in a carnivorous plant, or being eating by a rock toad thing.
another plus for the hit and run tactics are it lets the hunters do all the heavy lifting for you, they go through and kill all the wildlife, which you can then come back and feed on later -> also every time you take down a hunter, you get more evolve points, leaving you with more wildlife to feed on, and more fuel to keep your armor up.

Now of course not everyone will feel comfortable enough with the monsters to even think about engaging hunters at stage 1 on purpose, but over time i think this will be the high risk high reward top level tactics that will really set the pros apart from the novices. so i say to you monsters, use that armor, slowly chip at the hunters, and dont play hide and seek for 10 minutes to go toe to toe with 4 100% hunters on their home field advantage (defending the reactor)


Feature: tracks that we have to look for when monster is sneaking
#2

A lot of the people on these forums already agree. It’s mostly the streamers and such who keep the mindset that stage 3 is the only time to fight.


#3

Yeah, I just watched the TGN video on ewe toob and at the end they say the thing about monsters not engaging until stage three and I thought, well, you must not have played much of the alpha, because I bet half my wins as monster were at stage 2, and some of my stage 3 wins wouldn’t have been possible if I hadn’t gotten strikes in earlier on.
So much misunderstanding about Evolve out there.
sigh


#4

Yup. Evolving with full armor is a complete waste. The only reason it works for these guys on twitch is because the hunters are inexperienced.


#5

I’d exchange a full bar of armor for a strike or two any day.


#6

I know it is generally viewed as ‘Optimal’ or at the least a good idea to attempt to gain down strikes before you hit 3 to give yourself the best odds, but I personally enjoy getting to Stage 3 then fighting when both sides are at their strongest. I know, I know, I’m such a nice guy.

But that’s just me.

I mean… if the team is INSISTENT on getting their fight, I’ll give them a fight at Stage 2.
I just like getting to 3 because I like getting to 3, not because I feel I NEED to, just that I like to :smiley:

Besides, I see it as doing the hunters a favor; now they get to work on their skills on finding a monster who enjoys staying hidden until 3, and if they catch me, it means I still have room for improvement :wink:


#7

After a while, when the monster players begin to fell more confident, I think it won’t be a problem.
After all, if you engage as a stage 3, the hunters can camp the power relay, which gives them an advantage.

I can imagine @MaddCow will be all over this thread. :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

A trick I’m looking to try is evolving right at the generator. So I can either attack it or prepare an ambush. They might not arrive in a group which is good for me. :slight_smile:


#9

Phew - saw that title and was about to come in here, all gung-ho, ready to tell you why there is plenty of incentive to attack before stage three. Dodged a 10-minutes-of-typing-an-explanation bullet :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

I won games at lvl one when i got caught out about 3 or 4 times lol. They just couldn’t coordinate anything well at all

I agree with the whole before 3 thing i just try to avoid them either way till I hit lvl 3 but if they catch me out at lvl 2 I just make them pay for it a little before I go off to feed. So many teams retreat when the medic goes down


#11

I think that as hunters get better at efficient movement and tracking, getting to stage 3 without a fight will happen much less than it will in these alphas and beta.


#12

getting strikes will be really important on lv1 when the hunter teams get better and better, against better teams monster will need to get strikes to the hunters at lv1,lv2 and win at stage 3.

Just go look at how the devs play the game it will give you a completely different wiev of the game.
If the hunters are competent the monster rarely even has time to evolve to stage3 so theres even more reason to fight lv1 to get the strikes in.

go look up Maniacsquirell’s stream they are playing against the best monsters atm and monsters are getting rekt every single time because they dont fight at all and just try to go for the lv3.

And vice versa when Maniacsquirell plays mosnter he pummels the hunters at stage 1 to get strikes and finishes the game at stage 2 because of the strikes.


#13

Just a little correction, you don’t recover health as you evolve, you gain extra health bars. This increases the % health you have left so it creates the illusion of recovering health, but you won’t lose out for evolving at 100% either. You’re basically going from 5 health bars to 7 etc (depending on monster and stage).

You are absolutely right for the most part though.


#14

IMO, I think It depends on the Map, the monster and slightly on the hunter composition. I’ve often found myself wanting to fight the hunters at the power relay as the kraken in the fusion plant map. If you can keep yourself in the air, it’s a terrible place for the hunters to fight.

Which is why you should be at the power relay when you evolve for stage 3. It gives you some extra time to mess up the power relay and/or you could meet the hunters on their way to the power relay if the relay area does not favor you in combat

I agree and this is also how I believe I will be fighting most of the time. But as this becomes more common, people will start developing counter tactics for this sort of engagement, so while it may be tough already, I promise it’s only going to be more difficult with time.


#15

Engaging only when reaching stage 3 is a mistake.
First you allow hunters to prepare the field, and they are not wounded.

puting down a hunter makes his MAX HP Pool drop.
So they become weaker, fight after fight.

If you played well, already caught some during stage 1 or 2, managed to do so and retreat when losing armor, you did it the good way.


#16

I usually prefer to engage hunters and finish games at level two. During alpha I rarely went to stage three with Goliath and Kraken. With Wraith on the other hand I believe at the moment that I would probably try to get fast stage three beefore fighting, as this monster is less tough and has the lowest armor.


#17

I think of the wraith as a Guerilla gameplay.
Sneak, Decoy, Abduction, kill, retreat.

I don’t think that you should go the “passive” way, even with Wraith.
And by Passive I mean “wait 'til stage 3”.


#18

Might be so… I need to play her first and then will decide what tactic suits me better =)


#19

Op has the right idea and understand’s why you should engage at lv1 to get strikes.


#20

Normally, a stage 3 monster (full health, armor) should always win if the skill levels are the same on both side.

…that’s not very fair actually x)