Monster choice should determine minion strength (defend)


#1

since the latest patch, it’s really easy to win defend as monster. behemoth and kraken have such an easy time, why do they get two minions?

if you pick wraith, you should get two minions, but behemoth should only get one, or two at half health.

i had this idea after four defends where my minions glitched and stood still with no path obstructions.

the resultant game was much more balanced.


#2

I think that Defend has gotten progressively easier for the monsters- they start with max armor, the turrets have less health, etc. I think that varying the strength/amount of minions based on the monster would be a good idea to counteract this. Personally I never play Wraith on Defend, and arguments could be made as to which monsters at better at Defend. Altering the minions would make the weaker monsters more viable in defend.
So, ya, cool idea!


#3

Given that a good Hunter team will practically always win on Defend yeah, it’s been made progressively easier for a reason :stuck_out_tongue:


#4

Hunters need to quickly take out the first batch of Minions ASAP then in the down time Hunt down the Monster and do as much damage as possible to it without leaving the Generators defenseless.

Trapper needs to throw the Dome in a way where it traps the Monster and gives it as little space as possible (usually up against the blue force field) while the other three do whatever it is that is needed.

Assault should focus on killing the Minions (hopefully the Assault is a bursty type and not Normal Markov or Hyde) while the others then focus the Monster then Assault joins the damage race vs the Monster when Minions are either down or Aggroed(?) away from the Generator.

So long as the Hunters play smart they can still roflstomp a Stage 3 Monster.


#5

no… just no…
Goliath, and Gorgon has the easiest time destroying objectives in defend.

On defend, hunters are too defensive, Hunt the monster and ignore the minions. Thats how you win defend.


#6

Well like I said at least take care of the first batch of Minions since you’re already kinda there and Monster will more than likely come to you.


#7

Maybe I’m never on good Hunter teams, or maybe I’m just a good Monster player but in my recent Defend experiences the Monster has won fairly easy, and I think that the more recent changes are making it easier.

Edit: This is similar to why I think Rescue I so Monster favored. One might argue that if Hunters co-ordinate well and follow a good strategy they will always win, but in my experience that simply doesn’t happen. The monster is faster than the hunters and can kill downed survivors (turrets/generators) with relative ease. I think that it would be a terrible idea to simply buff the Monster in Rescue or Defend.


#8

I’m talking from a premade sense or any Hunter team with four working brains. In pubs it’s too easy to squash the competition.


#9

Are pubs or premades more common in Quick Game/Evac? Beacuse if premades are a small minority perhaps pubs should be considered more when determining balance. This is why Gorgon was changed recently, right? To help newer players?


#10

The game is balanced around both hence why a lot of things are grossly unbalanced and why some things just seem wrong. Premades are less frequent in quick play though but that won’t deter them from trying to balance both aspects.


#11

And I agree that the game should be balanced around both. Think about it- weakening minions but strengthening the monster is better for both pubs and premades. If good teams focus on the monster then it makes sense to make the Monster-Hunter conflict more important and the minions more of something small the hunters have to watch out for. If bad teams focus on the minions then making the minions weaker should help them. Maybe taking this half-measure is correct.


#12

Thing is minions aren’t even a nuisance to premades. They hunt the Monster, they win, simple as that. They never have to deal with minions.


#13

And that’s fine- if the monster needs to be stronger against premades so be it. But just giving to monster takes away from pubs. If minions don’t matter than also making them weaker won’t affect the balance of premades vs Monster but it will make it fair for pubs vs Monster.

Edit: I think that we’re mostly in agreement but fighting over a slight semantic issue. I’m going to bed now.


#14

i don’t think its as easy as some think it is for hunters on defend. You’re against a stage 3 full armor and health monster. Yes you can chase the monster down but it’s in their favor to win that fight. While yes you come back with full health from the dropship the minions are destroying the relays while monster destroyed the turrets and ran off. Personally I had bad experiences with monsters on defend. It’s just destroy turrets, let minions destroy generators if hunters chase after, migate the whole time unless you are confident you can wreck them, and gg. I’ve found it easier on defend to win by letting the timer run as Hunter. However this is just what I’ve run into and I play usually with randoms so I can’t add my two cents for when it comes to premades.


#15

Then why call it defend? Whynot call it Stage 3 Hunt?

IF they made it defend, that should be the objective, not hunting.


#16

My idea was to limit the hunters to the zone near the generators either by high-walls or forcefield-type walls where only the monster can pass. In return, the hunters can move on to the 2nd generator if they wanted to. By TRS balancing only off pre-made games and/or high-end league of evolve then they fucked over a good 2/3rds of the playerbase.


#17

###Hunt Game Mode:
####Monster
Primary Objective: Destroy the relay
Secondary Objective: Kill Hunters

####Hunters:
Primary Objective: Protect the Relay
Secondary Objective: Kill the Monster

###Defend Game mode:
####Monster
Primary Objective: Destroy the relays to gain time, and destroy the main relay.

####Hunters:
Primary Objective: Protect the Relay(s)
Secondary Objective: Kill the Monster


#18

BUT if the only way a pub game could be won by hunters is to hunt the monster, then what point in there to defend???

Hunting the monster works for the top evolve players BUT NOT ON PUB. We’re talking about a fix for pub. I’m talking about the point of defend being made. NOT how to win via hunting.

An analogy:

I got a car to go off-roading. A car simply isn’t made stock to do that.


#19

Do you want to argue about Primary and Secondary Objectives now?
Or do you want me to just tell you, that you’re wrong.
Your choice.


#20

The 2nd objective is the problem in the top league of evolve. That’s what fucked over defend for pub. I’m saying that needs a fix.

You don’t seem to understand that the monster wins by destroying the relay, killing hunters and letting them wait the 2:30 drop back to the game that gives the monster a huge advantage. Then for the only way for the hunters to win is to hunt the monster.

Does. Not. Seem. Right. For. Hunters. To. Win. That. Way.