Misconceptions about Evolve from the stream (Hunters OP!)


#1

So I just watched the latest stream from a few days ago on youtube and I had watched the previous one on youtube as well.

A big thing I notice is a LOT of “HUNTERS ARE SO OP!” or “THE MONSTER NEVER WINS”, etc. Now obviously some of this will be cleared up when these people get to play the game. But I’m starting to think 2K is hurting themselves a little because people see a new idea and already biased into thinking it will be hard to balance and then they see these lopsided games and come to very wrong conclusions.

For example in the first game of the latest stream, Goliath gets caught at stage 1 in an arena but he has full armor. He actually plays it very well, not letting himself get pinned down and losing a tiny piece of his first health bar by the time arena goes down. So far, so good.

As he’s running the trapper leads the charge and the Goliath sees she’s not full health and goes on the attack, dealing some good damage. He clearly senses a strike and leaps in but some good play from support and medic prevent it and he loses focus of the trapper. Now he still has little to no armor and is still stage 1. It was a nice try but instead of cutting his losses…he presses an already failing attack. He proceeds to take what is essentially a WIN (losing little to no HP at stage 1 dome fight, that’s a victory for the monster even with no downs) and throws it ALL away by overextending in this fight. After he fails to get the trapper he doubles down and charges Hyde when Hank AND Val are still up. Hyde is basically invincible and just chewing through his health with the flamethrower and the Goliath is down to 2 bars of health.

While we here on the forums understand what went wrong and why, most of these people don’t and this game is quickly gaining a reputation for being poorly balanced, even pre-release. I want Evolve to do well, I want it to still be easy to find a game years after it releases. I don’t want it to get an undeserved reputation.

So does anybody else agree with this? Not saying it’s 100% perfectly balanced just that hunters are not crazily, insta-win level OP. Or do you perhaps agree that the game is not remotely balanced at the moment?

Again, it just worries me that the top comments for the streams have both been about how OP the hunters are and I see this echoed in comment sections in articles and anywhere that’s not these forums. Evolve is pretty complex and there’s a LOT of misinformation out there.

So, what do you guys think? Or if any TRS devs care to respond (understand if you can’t though) what do you guys think? Do you think the more general gaming public understands Evolve’s rules?

Sorry for the essay! :stuck_out_tongue:


#2

Hopefully people will take the time to actually look into the game rather than make off hand conclusions based on a few videos but you never know on the whole people are lazy…


#3

Why do you think I wrote that guide and I’m working on making video guides? To help people understand the game and it’s mechanics and make them see that it is balanced. Not that it matters, you can’t change stupid…


#4

Why do you think I wrote that guide and I’m working on making video
guides? To help people understand the game and it’s mechanics and make
them see that it is balanced. Not that it matters, you can’t change
stupid…

I wouldn’t necessarily call it stupidity, people have varying levels of interest in the game. Some will read the forums and know the game and recognize the frequent monster deaths as a good or bad plays by the people playing. Maybe for others, all they know about or are interested in is the twitch stream or the Youtube VODs and they get the wrong impression that the hunters are winning too much. You can’t expect every potential customer to be combing the forum learning about a game that’s not due for release for a few months.


#5

The first live stream showed otherwise, as the monster won only their :smile:
But the make people understand how the game works and to let them show that a team of Hunters really must work together to be successful. is to let them play the game, so hopefully we will see a demo before release (maybe somewhere after the Xbox One beta thingy??)


#6

I definitely think it is balanced at the moment. Here, we’ve all seen smart monsters come out on top just as often as hunters. Internally, the win rates are something around 47/53 in the hunters favor. That’s not bad at all considering a monster has never been done before in any big games.

Lots of people don’t think when they watch a video. I’ve shown a many people Evolve videos and a few are like “meh, I don’t see what is so cool about it”. One of these people asked me what it is that I see in the game that made me so excited. I thought for a moment and decided to rewatch the same video with them - only I took some advice from J-Party and DB_Sinclair. I put the audio on low (there was no commentary on the video I was showing at the time) and did my own miniature growlcast for them. From what I knew about the game, I pointed out every strategic subtlety I could see in each play. I highlighted good plays and mentioned what I’d do different in various situations. By the end of the video, my friend was asking where to pre-order.

Not every audience appreciates subtlety until it is put plainly in front of them. Give it time - they’ll see it eventually.


#7

I think the premise of the game is being misconstruded. The idea that you get to be the boss monster and cause massive damage and such makes it seem like the monsters should be dominating. I think people want it to be easier to destroy the hunters and that the hunters need to be the ones on the backfoot the WHOLE match.

In reality the monster is not OP. A monster needs to be cunning. needs to have decent knowledge of what is going on in the game. It is facing hunters geared to kill him. your being hunted. even at stage 3 your being hunted. you can feel like youve become the hunter all you like but bottom line you are being attacked and must defend your territory.

I think they should recommend all players automatically play as the hunters first (tutorial. maybe first few games too) so that they can get accustomed to the gameflow and monster patterns. people who jump straight into the monster (Besides us XD) will get stomped so fast they will sell the game the next day.


#8

I believe the game is fairly balanced right now, I believe that the hunter teams is just slightly a little more difficult because of the team play aspect of it and if one person isn’t holding up for the team, it greatly weakens the teams chances of winning. The monster absolutely has to focus down hunters or else they will just do way to much damage. However I think the game is balanced well for its symmetrical aspect.


#9

People say things are op in games this is a misconception, different characters have different LEARNING CURVES meaning it is more difficult to learn and become good with some than others. In my opinion the monster has a higher learning curb than the hunters. But it is all relevant to the amount of time spent learning the characters and their playstyle. Many nub players at league claim that some champs are op but if you listen to the professionals they say its a matter of counterpicking and playing on strengths and weaknesses. So noone is op as long as you know how a champ is played he can be beat.


#10

Seems obvious to me that without knowing the skills of all Hunters/Monsters, it’s pointless to discuss balance at any length. However, it does also seem obvious that the only thing that can actually make one party OP (besides having imbalanced skills) is that you know which monster you’re hunting, or which hunters are hunting you, before the start of the match. Becomes too easy to pick “counters”.

Instead, it would be a lot more fun, and challenging, if you don’t know this fact before hand… especially as a Hunter. Forces the team to adopt tactics, and it’s demanding on a individual level that the players know what to do with their favorite class vs. all monsters/hunters in every situation and in every stage of the match.

I haven’t played it yet so I don’t know… but I assume it’s already designed it this fashion?


#11

The opposite team picks are only revealed after everyone has readied and the match is about to begin.


#12

Plot-Twist… The Hunters are the evil bad guys and the “monsters” are the Protaganists :smiley:


#13

Indeed it is. Once everyone is “locked in” then you see what you’re facing so you can decide in match how to proceed.

Of course, there was no real surprise in the alpha being that there were no actual choices :stuck_out_tongue:

I think it’s safe to say that O.o


#14

That is good to hear!


#15

I’m not too worried about power levels. Those can be easily modified if the devs have the foresight to make their game flexible. My biggest concern is the timer at end-game. I want to know what happens when the hunters just camp at the generator and wait for a L3 monster to be forced into a timed fight. Has anyone tested this yet? Because if that proves effective or even a bit more predictable, you know that’s what people will do. An entire game of camp the generator sounds pretty bad. I don’t understand why you would introduce a game mechanic that encourages camping; that’s boring. I thought it was very cheesy when I saw the hunters fall back to the generator and trap the whole area on a couple occasions. I could do without that tactic.

Possible Solutions:

  • Add a second generator near the original one to force hunters to move, but not far enough that the monster can kite them. If either generator is destroyed, hunters lose.
  • Allow the monster a way to reset the game over timer instead of just pausing it. Perhaps, downing a hunter or doing a certain amount of damage could reset it. That way the monster can attack and have time to regen armor. The hunters would be forced choose between giving chase or letting the monster dictate the entire end-game.

#16

from what iv seen so far. even ameteur monster players can inch out a win at stage 3. im sure when the pros come around the general idea is to never let a pro monster reach stage 3 with no damage to his hp or consider it game over


#17

Lots of discussion of this particular topic going on in [This thread][1]
At least one fellow shares your concern, but the folks with alpha experience in that thread say that it is a non issue, and telemetry data from the last alpha test suggests that monsters win the overwhelming majority of matches that go to stage three, in particular when the hunters fail to chip away at his health in the preceding two stages.

edit: I do like the idea of resetting, or at least regaining some time on the countdown from downs, as the purpose of the countdown is to keep the monster engaged in the fight, not just stalking the periphery taking easy shots and armoring up… but one could argue that the pausing of the timer when the monster is in active combat/attacking the generator already gives the monster that bonus without requiring a down at all.
[1]: Monster Objective Win


#18

Thanks I posted something very in depth over there. I feel like I make a compelling argument.


#19

From what I have seen from game play videos, the game is fair or at least looks that way. If the monster engages the hunter during stage 1 and cannot get away I wouldn’t be surprised if that monster player lose 9 times out of 10. Overall the game seems fair, but it will be interesting playing against a team of 4 pro hunters knowing how to communicate and track aggressively.


#20

I lost a grand total of one match as the monster last alpha. Probably 20 or so games.