Middle Earth: Shadow of War Discussion Thread


To be fair, you buying the game IS supporting microtransactions. Wherther you use them or not is up to you. It’s like saying you are ok buying a nuke without the intention of setting it off.

Then that is on them. Supporting a game that has shady/dubious practices for the sake of keeping the series going is a horrible notion. Maybe next time it’ll be pre order exclusive launch content for the single player. But by then you already gave them your money. Do you really value a video game franchise more than keeping a company honest? If people voted better with their wallets to begin with this wouldn’t get this far, but people keep indulging in this practice which is why it is spiraling ridiculously right now.


Tbh I shouldn’t have pre-orded the game in the first place. I don’t even know how good the game as a whole will be. They could easily screw something up.
Instead I have other games I could buy that have already released, but make no mistake I will buy this game if it turns out to be good.


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I view this as a pretty flawed way of looking at it. The message sent is much stronger when people are saying “Yes we want this, but we DON’T want this.” with their wallets as much as with their voice. It worked with DmC and it will work elsewhere. (It’s not exactly the same situation, but it’s the same kind of message)

Like it or not it’s the way all big corporations will look at these kinds of sitations. What a lot of people don’t seem to realise is that corporate will just look at the amount of money the game would bring in by itself, typically to the point where they’re out-of-touch with the audience they’re trying to sell to. They see the game itself making money but not the microtransactions they’ll get the message a damn sight better than if people were to simply refuse to buy the game.

Supporting the game but not the microtransactions is absolutely a valid form of showing a company what you will and will not tolerate from them. They can see exactly what parts of the game are making them money, the game itself and the microtransactions are two entirely different forms of revenue. And that is something that a whole lot of people don’t seem to understand.

Well, they haven’t really done anything dishonest here. They’ve been pretty upfront about the entire thing since announcing it. That doesn’t make it any less a crappy system, but it’s not dishonest.

Eh, I don’t think that this situation with microtransactions is all on the consumers. I think a large part of it is also down to various corporate bodies misunderstanding why f2p microtransactions don’t often get a lot of flak and them wanting in on some of that action.


It’s on both parties.
Consumers because they keep buying into it, and the producers because they want/need to make money and try to come up with new ways to get as much money as possible.
We are wallets with money, nothing more.


Yeah, that’s actually a far more concise way of saying what I was trying to say. XD


But it’s not. There are people with obsessive gambling addictions that won’t be able to NOT buy these things. People are impulsive creatures and while you might think that they can be in the game and no one uses them you are sorely wrong. Whales spend stupid amounts of money in micro transactions, it’s why they are so prevalent and popular.

Again, refer to above. Corporate won’t see it that way.

Again, see above. Thats like having slot machines at McDonalds and saying that it’s ok to have them there as long as you personally don’t use them. Someone will.

It is dishonest when they are saying that it isn’t impact in any meaningful way. Which is a lie because if it didn’t impact anything in any meaningful way, they won’t make money of it. I don’t want my game to turn in a grind fest because it encourages people to purchase these things.


I don’t mind the microstransactions, it’s mainly single player and as long as you’re not playing the ‘competitive’ mode for shadow of war (which most players will probably do after finishing the story) it won’t affect you at all


It does because the game will be balanced around them. Lets imagine this scenario: It takes 2 hours on average to grind to get a legendary. Mind you, this is RNG and a la diablo it could be a total stinker or not. Now, the game is basically saying that the 2 hours you grinded are worthless because you could just pay money, get 4 AND a legendary Ork that follows you around in both SP and MP. Basically, the micro transactions are saying the time invested in the game is meaningless because the game is build around the idea that people will be these ‘loot crates’.

Saying it doesn’t affect you is completely baffling. Obviously they are balanced around people buying them otherwise people wouldn’t buy them. Regardless that it doesn’t affect you, it still affects the way that the game is built from the ground up. Lets hear how many people LOVED trying to grind the ‘best’ legendary items in the first game. Oh, that few eh? I thought it was because the story/gameplay/nemesis system/combat system was great, not the diabloesque loot crap.


Whilst yes, people with some serious gambling problems do exist those that will use things like this as a means to satisfy such an addiction will be in the minority. Part of the thing that keeps people addicted to gambling is the risk and the chance of big payouts, etc RNG-based stuff like this typically doesn’t satisfy people who have real gambling addictions. Now, that’s not to say that there aren’t people with gambling addictions that don’t get drawn to these things in particular, but people with any serious gambling addictions are unlikely to be playing a videogame that offers no payout and no risk.

I didn’t say that, in fact, I have zero doubt whatsoever that there will still be a disappointly high number of people that will buy into this shit. What I said was that supporting the game but not the microtransactions is a valid way of demonstrating what you will and will-not accept from a company, and I will stand by that statement.

Do you mean Wales? >.>
I’ve honestly never looked into the numbers. But you should also consider where those microtransactions are coming from, because I’d wager a good chunk of them are on mobile games. As usually seems to be the case.

I see where you’re trying to go with that, but these are two completely different scenarios.

Hey, if EA can include microtransactions that don’t really impact the game in any meaningful way with Mass Effect’s Multiplayer I see no reason whatsoever why WB couldn’t accomplish the same end.

Shadow of Mordor could get to be a particularly repetitive grind if you were trying to play, or do things in a certain way. Fact is that it’s a game with some pretty heavy RPG elements to it, it has the potential to be a grind with or without the microtransactions. Not that, that makes their inclusion any better, but it’s not like the first game was free from some mind-numbing grinding itself.

These crates can be purchased without the use of real-world money, certain in-game events, milestones and, from what I’m understanding, daily/weekly/monthly/whatever events will award smatterings of the currency you’d normally spend real-world money on. Not only can you kill your own Captains, etc for gear to break down for Mirian, but you’ll also get said gear from Captains, etc, you kill over the course of naturally playing the game, which you’ll also be able to break down for Mirian. The rank of the Captains, etc are likely to scale not only with your character level, but also the difficulty you’ll be playing on.

And that’s saying nothing of the inclusion of new Orcs that are there to drop trasures, etc. I’m also pretty sure that standard Orcs also have a chance to drop stuff if I’m remembering some of their livestreams correctly.

Do I think microtransactions suck? Absolutely! But from what I’ve seen of the game so far there are enough avenues available to people to let them play the game and still effeciently get things without these crates if they so wish.


But this is 100% not true. You are buying all their content, whether you use it or not doesn’t matter because they still get the same money regardless. It’s like buying a car that has a machine gun attached to it but because you won’t use the machine gun it’s ok. It’s an entire package. Just because this isn’t an issue for you personally right here doesn’t mean it’s fundamentally against what gaming should be about. Instead of focusing on the game and making it great, they instead add a ridiculous new grind to the game in order to coax more money out of people. You not using it and paying for this product means you are still ok with it being in the game. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Do you really think that they would have added a tedious new loot grinding system to the game when it wasn’t even a part of what made the first one great? No. It’s a cash grab, plain and simple.

No, whales as in people who spend heaps of cash on microtransactions. Almost all microtransactions are paid for by ‘Whales’. http://svdictionary.com/words/whale

But it’s not. You are supporting a publisher who has something attached to a product that you personally don’t care for because you don’t think it affects you, (Which again is a falisy because the game is built to encourage purchasing loot boxes to make them more money in which case they inflated the time spent needed to grind things out, otherwise it wouldn’t encourage people to buy their schlock) You buying a game means you support the Devs in their entire product. Sure, you can buy a car and not use the airbags, air conditioning, mirrors etc… but you are giving them the money for the entire product which is what you are ok with.

You seriously think in game purchases in EA MP doesn’t mean anything? I’m sorry, I had to reedit this because I caught myself laughing out loud.

There are LIGHT rpg elements in it. You level up, get a single skill point and get loot that changes ‘some’ abilities. That is not what an RPG heavy game is. It is an action/stealth adventure game with RPG light elements added to it.

And name a single online game that has in game purchase with ‘in game currency’ not take extremely massive amounts of time invested to get. The problem is that people can automatically buy legendaries and legendary orks and get FREE rewards for having the strongest strongholds from MP. In game rewards based on you guessed it, spending real currency. ‘In Game currency’ needed to unlock things in games usually means weeks of accumulation needed for anything worthwhile.

Yet you are willing to fund a publisher that has this in their product AND you haven’t even played the game. Not only are you willing to buy something, from what it sounds like Day 1, but with something you are against but shrug it off because you don’t think it impacts you (Which again, it does)

Do show me the streams where they display how much in game currency you can get on a daily, weekly or monthly cap? I don’t believe there is one so you are claiming something you don’t know.

Look, it’s clear you don’t see a problem with microtransactions in your game, I get it. However, this is the reason why the gaming culture is churning out such mediocre crap. Because people shrug off things that don’t affect them until the next gimmick comes out and it hits a few more people, and then a few more and eventually apathy takes over and people just ‘deal with it’. I’m sorry, this is a strong stance that I think gamers need to take and not just pass the buck to someone who isn’t ok with it.


I can see we’re not going to agree on this.

Except the machine gun isn’t giving your money to the car manufacturer every time it gets used. These analogies of yours aren’t really pertinent to the subject matter. This is where the differences lie, if we use your example of a car coming with a preinstalled machine gun. For argument’s sake let’s say that this comes with a lifetime supply of ammo for no extra cost, you could use that machine gun as much as you saw fit because you’d have no need to worry about incurring additional costs.

Microtransactions, however, cost money with each use, and the money made from these is typically tracked by the company using them. Let’s say, for example, 1,000 people* buy this game and, through some act of God, don’t use the microtransactions at all are you trying to tell me that, that wouldn’t send a message far more effectively than just not buying the game would?

*Number was pulled out of my arse.

Huh. Well, I learned something new today.

It is an entirely different scenario. Partly due to the fact that slot machines don’t have ways built-in that let people build themselves up to a jackpot without spending anything.

I’ll refer you back to your own previous analogy about buying car coming with a preinstalled machine-gun. These types of analogies don’t work because you’re not being charged by the manufacturer every time you use one of the car’s features. Once, again, this is where the differences lie.

Once again, I didn’t say that. I said that the microtransactions in Mass Effect’s Multiplayer had no real impact on the game as a whole. At absolute best, spending money on the in-game packs cut off one, maybe two games depending on the type of pack you wanted to buy, the level of your gear, and characters, etc. And depending on how good you and the people you were playing with were at the game each full game could be done within 10-15 minutes with no item usage. And those packs functioned in the same sort of way that the crates in Shadow of War do. So I once again say that if EA can manage reasonable take on these sorts of microtransactions then I see no reason why WB couldn’t.

I’d argue that trying to build your arm to your preference pushed Shadow of Morder past just being light on the RPG elements, especially given how much time you had to put into that shit.

And then let’s not forget how much of a tedious grind getting the best runes could be.

Mass Effect. This is the third time I’m mentioning it, actually.

And once again I’ve provided a list of ways these crates can be obtained without spending money, all of which have been confirmed via livestreams. Yeah, sure it’ll take longer, but that’s about the only downside to it.

And I’ll once again point out that microtransactions are usually watched by their companies, it’s not like all these analogies you’ve been trying to use, in this instance it is entirely possible for people to make a difference if they exercise some impulse control.

Hm, I may not have explained this very well. Similar to the daily rewards you get just for logging into games like Warframe, Paragon, etc, Monolith have already stated that there will be such things (I don’t believe a frequency was ever given, which is why I used Daily/weekly/monthly/whatever in my description) in Shadow of War. I can’t remember which livestream it was stated in exactly (it might have been the stream where the microtransactions where announced, but it’s been a fair while since I’ve watched it so my memory is a bit fuzzy) but it was definitely stated.

Oh, I do have problems with microtransactions, especially in full-priced games. But my belief is that people can reject them without skipping out on good games entirely. And I do have faith that Monolith will make another good game with Shadow of War.

And I agree, but like I’ve said, I think we can reject microtransactions without skipping out on games.
Though, when you think about it, I don’t think either of us is going to be right until the masses can exercise more impulse control. Because even if you don’t buy the game, and I do but refuse to use the microtransactions, there will still be plenty of people who do both buy the games and use the microtransactions.


True, but it affects your miles per gallon. This is because the vehicle is designed AROUND the idea that it is included, just like the balance of legendary drop rates are going to be based 100% around loot crates. If legendaries were too easy to farm then no one would feel the need to buy loot boxes to speed up their grind time. You bet that this is included and changed because of the market section.

No, because they wouldn’t because there is never going to be someone not stupid to buy something even if it’s the dumbest thing on the planet. Go look at sites that show people buying literal jars of spit off ebay, or spend thousands of dollars on toast with Jesus pictures in it. Consumers consume because that is how they are brought up and people can’t control basic behaviors and impulses most of the time.

Yes you can, it’s called asking for money outside McDonalds. There are plenty of ‘free ways’ to start getting money to feed gambling addictions. It takes a while and sometimes someone donates you a thousand bucks, but it’s still there.

I never said you were being charged with each use of the gun, I’m saying that it’s something that is unnecessary and uneeded. Easy way to settle this. Can you play the game without the market place? Yes. Then why the hell do we want/need it? Because publishers like to bilk their player base.

I disagree with this. Sure it’s fun to make super builds but the game content on the hardest of days is trivial with even moderate gear. I played and 100% that game within 1 week without any need to grind or make super builds. This wasn’t Diablo 3.

And this is what it boils down to when you don’t think this affects anything. If it didn’t affect anything no one would buy it? So either people are dumb and spend money for the sake of it (Which is why it shouldn’t be around people in general) Or it does matter and you just don’t see it. Either of those two options are good enough for me to not want it.

Ah! See it DOES affect you. YES YOU. You will have to spend MORE time because of their system. The game is balanced AROUND loot box transactions. They are artificially making it a grind because they want more money. I can’t understand how you don’t see this. Why can’t we play the game and enjoy it for itself? Why do we even need to grind for crap? I have games like Titan Quest or Diablo if I want a grinding loot generator game. Shadow of Mordor was great without even needing to worry about drops and gear upgrades for the vast majority of the game. It was trivially easy even without ‘perfect gear’. Why does it suddenly need to change?

If people exercise control. Thats like saying fast food isn’t unhealthy, people can stop when they want to. However they know people won’t because they don’t have self control. Self fulfilling arguments doesn’t change anything. Businesses are all about making money, and thats what many will do regardless of whether or not it hurts, harms and ruins people. Don’t even get me started on the Tobacco industry’s stance, “Well people can stop if they want to,” Sure. But why even have the product? Because people are weak and they make stupid amounts of money.

They said what you can get in game currency from, but not the amount needed to get any type of box. Like most online games of this sort, it’s a trickle effect and business jargon to say, “Sure, you can earn EVERYTHING in game, it just might take silly amounts of time”

But you don’t. You are willing to look past the evils for the sake of the game. It doesn’t harm me, it won’t affect me, when it does because the game was built around it to begin with.

I agree. My opinion is that publishers in general should treat their customers better and not even put the temptation there. Again, if the function is not needed/wanted, why put it in there? Because it makes them money.

At this point, we’re going in circles. You won’t change my mind, I won’t change yours and I don’t want to carry this on over and over forever. I hope the game is good for those that buy it, but I still stand by saying that this is just another stupid evil function added to games that is not needed. The game seemed ok, but the more and more I saw I wasn’t that interested in. Now, I’m 100% against it just because they do add in this unneeded function. I want games to be better, I want gamers to be better, I want publishers to more or less remove themselves away from being needed because most of the time it’s the publishers that tack on this junk and the devs have very little to say the vast majority of the time. The publishers are the devs boss and a lot of times those bosses don’t have a clue what a good game is, just what the latest trending economy shill can be.

(Do note I don’t mean all publishers but when you look at people’s issues with a lot of games that tanked or were falsified/broken promises, it’s usually publisher interference and not the devs) That isn’t to say that all Devs are great etc… However, I would love to see more Indie Devs putting out great games like Ninja Theory’s Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice, a $30 Indie game that looks/feels almost as good as most $60+ games and they didn’t need a publisher to do it. Great games can be made but the industry in general makes us feel that Publishers are too important to not have.

Anyway, I’m done for now on this matter as I said before. I hope the game is fun for those wanting it, I just merely said I wasn’t for the reasons I mentioned and got railed into trying to convince someone else which is my badd. I’m just super passionate about trying to find ways to improve the gaming community and am convinced that practices like this are just shoehorning the industry towards something not great.


I loved the first Middle Earth. I messed around with the Nemesis system so much that I haven’t finished the game to this day after playing it for almost 50 hours.

But the microtransactions are idiotic. They undermine the main selling point of the game which again, is the Nemesis system. New orcs and armor should only be won by killing orcs and branding them. Why play the game and win them when you can just buy em ? Because they stuck a MP element in there ?

The most vivid time in my mind that a MP element snuck its way into a single player game like this was (SURPRISE SURPRISE) in Arkham Origins. I mean, who in their right minds buys an Arkham game for MP after what Rocksteady achieved ? And of course, noone played it.

Remember that the same publisher made purchasable fatalities a thing. PURCHASABLE FATALITIES IN MORTAL KOMBAT. And do not even get me started on them wanting to make their money back. If after season passes, DLC and Collector’s editions and releases along multiple platforms, you cannot make your money back, get the hell out of the industry, man.

Whoever buys this defends and supports this practice even if they don’t purchase anything. You are making gaming worse for all of us and you should be ashamed.

The main reason behind the microtransactions is this stupid element of MP that without a doubt WB forced Monolith to incorporate after the success of their first game. It’s essentially an artificial need created to milk more money out of a good game. Not to mention it runs 100% opposite to the main mechanic of the game i.e. killing orcs and finding loot in order for you to brand stronger orcs and create an army.

If someone breaks my window and then presents me with glass to repair said window, I won’t buy from them !

Fuck WB, wait for a sale in two years or so, speak with your wallet.


You should finish the game, it’s great :slight_smile: When I first played I started with the goal of making Ratbag a main Warchief and having him turn out to be bad ass. I was sad I could not do this. (Yes, I know that there technically is a way to ‘sorta’ do this, but it’s not the same)


From what I understand, Saruman is behind the whole shebang. I sort of got spoilered for it. I will finish it one day maybe. And who knows, if the sequel drops down to 10 bucks a year or two after it launches, I will check it out.

Because honestly, it looks like everything good about the first game, distilled and concentrated. Minus the MT, of course. I mean, BALROGS with suits of armor.


The channel uruk’s hollow has quite a few videos with clips from the livestreams about the crate system. I can confirm that you will be able to get crates for free. Everything up to gold will be for ‘silver’ (can’t remember the name) which you earn by selling or killing warchiefs or runes or by killing treasure orcs. Of course, missions will give it because that’s pretty obvious. 'Gold" is a lot harder to come by and the only way to get it is to participate in global events/challenges which makes sense because it’s the premium currency. I don’t love the microtransactions but I definitely don’t hate them enough to complain on every video that the main story will be behind a paywall, it just doesn’t make enough sense to complain about something optional this much.



Jeez. Even when they try to do something good they fuck up.

That is one hell of a fine print at the end, there.

Also, get this.

MTs for this game also work towards the new Social Conquest Meta MP mode.

Social Conquest is a PERMADEATH mode. If you lose an orc captain gained through the market or the game, you lose him for good.


They’ve actually confirmed exactly the opposite during a livestream already. =/

EDIT: But yeah, that fine-print on the Forthog DLC is ridiculous. I do, however, encourage people to watch this video here and really listen to what the guy says. He doesn’t defend what WB have done by doing this, but he does offer alternative ways to help the man’s family if you feel that you want to.