Markov's Mines and their effectiveness


#1

Markov’s mines are one area of this game in which the implementation of the concept defeats the purpose of their existence.

These are designed for area denial, which is obvious based on their area of detecting/explosion and their arm time. They’re not used for anything else.

However, they’re useless for the exact purpose of what they’re designed to do!

Stick with me here:
The way they’re designed, you want to place these where your other Hunters can retreat to so that the Monster has a choice: Either attack and take damage or avoid the area for the time being. This is the very definition of area denial.

However! Because of the fact that quite literally, every single monster has an AoE ability, and sometimes more than one, this is NEVER THE CASE and they end up being a waste of time that would be better spent using your main weapon.

No matter where you place them, due to the insanely large large hitboxes for many Monster abilities, when Hunters attempt to run into the mines to scare off the Monster (a feat that seems impossible) the Monster doesn’t just run towards them like an idiot. They shoot them, with abilities that cooldown so fast that they are spitting out abilities faster than would seem possible. Most of these abilities, due to their sheer size, have hitboxes. These hitboxes, in addition to hitting the Hunters (damaging them anways!) destroys the mines, armed or not.

So, as you see, the mines are effectively useless.

Sure the monster isn’t ‘right on top of them’ but as we all know, he doesn’t need to be.

A list of abilities that does damage to the hunters and blows up the mines:

Goliath has fire breath and rock throw, both of which are easily spammable.
Kraken has lightning strike, banshee missiles, vortex and to an extent, chain lightning.
Gorgon has acid spit and the web shot, not to mention the spider.
Wraith is the only one that has problems but any half-intelligent Wraith is just going to warp blast into your Hunters.

This prevents the mines from blowing up til he’s done with the animation but the explosion of the ability damages ALL the hunters, AND blows the mines up. Thus completely negating their usefulness against the ONE Monster they should be the most effective against: Wraith, a melee storm of death and fear.

WHAT I SUGGEST

Give them a ‘three strike’ rule. I hate to use League for this example but it’s a medium many are aware of, have experience with and will understand. League’s ‘wards’ (items that can see areas of the map that are sometimes invisible) have hitpoints. But unlike typical HP, these are ACTUAL hit points. You have to hit it three times, no matter how much damage you do.

Something like this would accomplish two things:

  1. Still allow smart Monster play from observant Monsters, granting them the ability to destroy the mines while being held back for just a moment (something that SORELY lacks in this game)
  2. Give the mines their intended use back, once again. They’re still destructible but they’re not a joke anymore.

#2

Remember that the way alot of ability’s damage is in “ticks”.
so your three strikes would be entirely useless against Fire breath, acid spit, death spiral etc. because they hit soooo many times over the course of a single deployment. But i can see where you are going.


#3

Not the way I play him. I use mines almost like an offensive tactic and I count on that damage too. Put em at the top of cliffs, chase the Monster into the corner of the dome or behind a pillar and lay mines while running back there.

They are fragile sure, but useless? Far from it.

Now, not sure if they’ve been changed for S2 or not but in Legacy I would wreck with those things. Provided they still work the same, they’re fine, trust me. Just have to be a little more clever with the placement of them.


#4

I use them to help combat mitigation. If the monster flees around the dome then I place them in areas they run around as a happy little surprise. However this is probably less of an issue in stage 2 beta


#5

Spread out your mines so 1 ability doesn’t kill them all.

If you can’t set up, drop them in between reloads.

Have your teammates dodge through them when long range abilities are on cooldown.

Hide them around corners, in bushes, or past the lip of a cliff.


#6

I do all of the things mentioned here (also, thanks for being a lot less hostile than Redditors. Don’t get that place sometimes) and they still blow up.

Copied from Reddit in response to ‘putting them on cliffs’

I do that except that AoE attacks splash over cliff sides. Ever noticed that despite being ‘behind’ the cliff and out of LoS of the monster, a rock throw or vortex will still hit you?
That happens to mines too.


#7

Change Markov’s three mines so that all 3 of them dash towards the monster, jet leap at it, yell “Dosvedanya!” in a tinny electronic Markov voice… and blow up like 3 little Suicide Bombing Robot Floor Sweepers.

Each of them use path finding so that they attack the Monster in a “waved formation”, forcing the Monster to slow down, choose what to do, or suffer maximum of 3 x burst damage if it doesn’t engage or chooses to do so with the little Markov Mines too close to it already.

Problem solved. Now try to detect if I’m trolling. :laughing:


#8

Not sure if serious. :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

Yeah… I’m good that way. :slight_smile: You gotta admit it would be fun and hilarious if it was the final strike to a Monster.

A chorus of little voices singing: “Doooosvedanya!” :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

I have the feeling you played a lot of Heavy in TF2. If you did play. :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

I played a lot of Dirty Bomb. :wink: Which my bro says is like TF2.

Funny thing though was when he saw me playing EVOLVE a couple of days ago he said: “Now that looks better than either of those games.” :slight_smile:

That’s also why a lot of my suggestions border on somewhat zany things like Giant Beartraps, the Sticky Bombs, the Poisoning of Wildlife animals.

I’m also a filmmaker (strictly hobby only for now)… and EVOLVE feels like a combination of Predator, Jurassic Park, Jaws, and Aliens. So sometimes I like to see some things from these films, whether their emotion, or some full-on gimmicks and ideas, get adopted into EVOLVE. :slight_smile:


#12

Markov is only really good against bad monster players, Goliath and Wraith. Kraken is in the air so he can easily destroy and avoid them. Gorgon has Acid Spit. Behemoth takes less damage during roll form and has many AoE abilities.

Against good monster players, Markov lacks the damage, since his mines are avoidable. But like people have said above, put them ontop of cliffs so the monster can’t chase hunters up them.

I never really liked Markov from the reasons I listed. Torvald has better burst damage and better area of denial, since you can mortar downed hunters and not have to worry about placing a mine and it getting destroyed instantly.


#13

Markov’s mines are not completely useless, but they need to be more reliable. All other assaults have weapons that are reliable in dealing damage (e.g. toxic grenade, super soldier, etc.), but mines will often go wasted - either destroyed by the monster or by wildlife spawning at the relay. This is especially a problem because Markov needs to take quite some time to lay mines, which means he is not dealing reliable damage with his other weapons. Even if mines are spaced out, it can be hard for a hunter who is being focused to find the next mine to hide in (meanwhile fire breath is already on cooldown to destroy it…)

I agree with the OP that Markov’s mines do not effectively provide area denial. While monsters should be able to destroy mines without taking damage (e.g. fire breath, decoy), I think too many abilities destroy mines (e.g. abduction, warp blast, [leap smash?? I need to test this]).

Maybe if monsters took damage if they landed an ability on or through a mine, mines would provide much more protection for hunters.


#14

Increasing the mines’ hp is all that needs to be done.


#15

I would say you’re thinking about Markov’s mines in the wrong way. The entire reason I use mines is to get the monster to waste abilities and time getting rid if them. Well placed mines can give a teammate the time they need to escape getting focused. Like it’s been said before, spread them out and put them in sneaky areas, around corners, on top of cliffs, etc. Just make sure they’re spread out far enough or don’t have LOS to each other so that it’s difficult for more than one to be destroyed at a time. Even if you don’t do a lot of damage to the monster, the wasted time and abilities for them makes it well worth it.


#16

They don’t waste abilities though. They just make it so that while the Monster is throwing an AoE ability at the Hunter of his choice (let’s say Medic) that the AoE effect ALSO kills the mines, thereby completely negating the Area Denial effect. See?


#17

Mines are useless against flyers and are easily destroyed like all the deployables. AoE’s should not be able to wipe them out.


#18

Rock Throw, Fire Breath, Warp Blast, Vortex, Chain Lightning, Banshee Missiles. All of these are from non-flyers (Elder Kraken IS a Melee combatant, despite being able to glide to an extent).

These attacks ALSO splash OVER cliffs. So despite putting mines on the edges of cliffs, they still die.


#19

I’m only a few days into EVOLVE but I have to agree that the Markov Mines are something of a hit or miss. This is compared to Hyde’s Toxic Grenade for example, which you can fling out faster and use more reliably.

Considering how quickly a team can sometimes lose momentum because an Assault switched out of Primary Weapon at the wrong time, those Mines could use some work. :slight_smile: