Map Shapes, moved to correct bored


#1

Skip to the below the line to get to my main point
Skip to the bottom for a Tl;Dr

First off, I want to say if this title was free to play it would not have caught my eye.So thank you, I’m a lover of games that really reward you for playing with skill and this game definitely does reward you for skill. I want to pay due respect to the founders that didn’t give up on this game and I want to thank Turtle Rock Studios for listening to the people who kept this project alive, many people were upset at the 3000 key founder give out and seeing that 27,000 keys given to the founders made me happy I listened to the positive reviews on steam. Shot out to all of you who gave positive reviews.

Only having played for what seems like a a couple of hours, I can’t explain to you how silly i feel giving a suggestion.

From what I’ve read on the forums, a good hunting team will catch a monster stage one and stay on it. Which is probably the most make or break point of the game. Were the hunters able to track the monster?

If a monster gets stage 2, it has the potential to wipe a team, but a good team will have, at the most, strikes and will maybe knock off at least a quarter if not a third of its hp depending on the monster.
Was the monster able to land their abilities and focus the correct targets? Did the hunters use their abilities and jet pack efficiently?

And stage 3 sways with how much hp the monster has and how many hunters have 2 strikes. Very much in the monsters favor unless the monster has 35% hp or less I would say.


I’m coming from the monsters perspective on this one, and like the title says, its about Map shape.

People tell me to spam planet scanner when I’m trapper, and that’s disappointing because that’s the best way to use it. Good teams will use the TAB map and the planet scanner in unison to efficiently trap the monster or cut it off and as of right now trying to sneak by seasoned trappers isn’t impossible, its just not rewarding. And with all of the knew jet pack recharge rate perks coming out, the ability for any hunter to deploy the dome, and the low cooldown time of the planet tracker even if I am able to get myself and the hunters going in opposite directions with all the aforementioned they’ll be hot on my trail still. Not because planet scanner op, but because the map shapes are too easy to read.

My suggestions are this

1.) Increase the effectiveness of the trappers personal tracking abilities
2.) Make the maps more circular
3.) Decrease the health and armor for all stage 3 monsters, but grant them some type of offensive boon

Making the maps more circular is my main suggestion, which I think will benefit the game in thee ways. For which I will use this example to help me help you picture what what is in my head and will help me tie in the first and third points i suggested.

Take Wraith Trap and imagine that instead of its polygon shape it is, more or less, a circle. Both the hunters and monsters spawning like they do now in the game. I know whatever class I’m playing I’m always looking out of the dropship to try and spot the monster, especially monsters with particle effects on their back.

Imagine seeing the monster in the middle of this circular map, you’re at the south pole. This is the info you have as a trapper, the monster is in the middle and you are at the south pole. You use the planet scanner, and it tells you what you already know, that the monster is somewhere in front of you. I think this change would put the emphasis on knowing when you, personally, as a trapper need to use the planet scanner instead of spamming it whenever it is up and would deeply encourage sticking together as a group. I think it would turn the trapper into a more active position than what it is right now, and if you buff every trappers cc to be more potent(not easier to hit/use), it would make hitting a dome on a monster so much more rewarding. And at the end of the day, I think that’s what we really all want is for the trapper to more active BEFORE you catch the monster.

The benefits are

1.) Trapper has an active roll
2.) From what i’ve read tracks were the main way to track a monster, this could bring importance back to that mechanic.
**3.)**Balances the first and third stage so its not an end-all-be-all at stages 1 and 3 for both monster and hunter. Stage one relies on who is the better cat and who is the better mouse instead of who has the better perks. And stage 3, so that the monster isn’t necessarily harder to kill, its just a whole lot deadlier.

||||||| Tl;Dr ||||||| Make maps more circular, make the trapper more active in its tracking, reward different monsters in different ways other than just health for getting to stage 3. Keep the 7 points though, that stuffs cool.

Problems I foresee with this,
1.) Teams that are new and inexperienced are going to have a hard time tracking the monster, but teams that have good communication, I think, will enjoy the challenge. Maybe ranked is where these changes should/could/would go?
2.) With the way things are set right now, if the maps were made into a circular shape 95% of monsters would be getting to stage 3. So instead of saying we shouldn’t do that(i.e make the maps circular) I want to ask
"What can we do to the monsters to make them less unkillable at stage 3 but still reward them?"
and
"What reward can we give to the hunters for doming the monster that is a hindrance to stage 1 and 2 that has the potential to be ignored or is negligible at stage 3?"

How the paradigm shifts from being the hunter to being hunted is amazing and I love that feeling both as a hunter and a monster and I don’t want that to go away. I think there are changes that could happen to make both sides feel like planning and cunning have more to do with outwitting each rather than just spamming traversals and planet scanners.

Let me get what you guys think would/should/could happen if the maps turned more circular. In their shape only! I love the terrain on all the maps and the unique elements they bring.


#2

I’m really, really glad to that somebody that only played “for a couple of hours” already has this level of understanding how Hunt plays out and how important jetpack management is.:slight_smile:

I agree that right now the Trappers’ tracking abilities (not the planet scanner) aren’t needed much. But right now every monster I played against was going loud and proud anyway. I’m guessing as time goes by monsters will learn to play more stealthier and juke the hunters. Then the tracking abilities should become more important again.
Right now all you need is the planet scanner, cutting ahead of the monster and spreading out a bit.


#3

First off, thank you for replying, I want to ask you

Is there a way for the monster to counter the tactic of:

Planet scanner, cutting ahead, spreading out?


#4

Double back after the planet scanner was used. Ambush hunters that are too far away from their team.

Once the domes falls down, immediately attack the hunter that threw it (unless it was assault). Usually the hunter that threw the dome has used all his jetpack to throw it and the team isn’t there to save him yet. Even if you can’t get him down, the other hunters may have used all their jetpack, too, trying to get in the dome and to save him. So they may be an easy prey now.


#5

I don’t think hunting teams that enjoy this game and are a challenge are going to split up. I think they are aware of their vulnerability when they are alone and stick by at least one other hunter or within a reasonable proximity of those hunters.

As for stealth pouncing the hunter that domes, this is why I mentioned the new perks that were coming that make jet pack management not as stress inducing. Which is a bummer if my cunning planning can be countered by a perk.

Inside a dome whole other story, if a monster is good enough it should be able to evolve to stage 3 without ever being domed. At this point there is no reason the hunters should not dome a monster stage 1 unless they are running some insane move speed perks. Which is unfortunate if that’s all it takes. Maybe I’m just not at the point where I have the optimal perks and hunters have the optimal perks so its a not feeling as intended.


#6

I’ve wanted to make a post about maps and I still may later on after doing other various task but since you have shed some light here I quite agree with a few points, for example, the current trapper class seems to slightly be holding back and seems lackluster ability wise. I am way more in favor of just changing to the name and role of the class to the trapper and making their abilities more in line with tracking the monster. We already have a few who really fit well with this such as maggie , crow , abe, and etc

Altho I want to see a little more challenge, this was a problem beforehand and it was hurting newer players and so I believe that this would be something to see maybe in a different mode like a more advanced hunt with monsters a bit weaker or stronger overall and hunters being the same, bring map perks, the elite wildlife back.

In regards to the map being more circular, i don’t believe that is really necessary if the maps were more open centralized. i.e. if wraith trap had tunnels that extended and branched off so that the monster had more options to move instead of being completely trapped by more experienced hunters or founders who may have studied a map to memory.


#7

Your last paragraph get’s at my point, thank you for deciphering what I could not put into words.

MORE OPEN


#8

How can you tell which hunter threw the dome?


#9

I highly doubt they’re going to remake the maps besides tweaks like we’ve seen in the four that are available in Stage 2.


#10

Honestly if anyone making suggestions thinks their ideas are actually going to be implemented fully they are kidding themselves.


#11

Which is exactly my point for every Suggestions thread, that they should be reasonable within what we know the devs can do or are willing to invest time and resources into at this late, late point of the game. Ie, not “let’s make Evolve 2 and have it be underwater” (sic), etc.


#12

It’s usually the first one in the dome. :stuck_out_tongue:

If the whole team can dome you and is in the dome right away, you are doing something wrong on the chase. Usually the hunters need to spread out a bit to cover all ways the monster can go.


#13

In order to do that, we would have to know what the devs can do or are willing to invest time and resources in at this late, late point of the game. And honestly if anyone says they know what the devs can do or are willing to invest time and resources in at this late , late point of the game get me their number so I can learn how to read minds too.

Its easier to have a brainstorm of suggestions and have the devs pick what is and is not valid/important instead of censoring our abstract contributions to try and please the devs. Its a forum, its what a forum is for.


#14

So the tactic for monsters is to rely on getting caught and focus down the one trapper that domes them, instead of using their skill and strategy to avoid getting domed altogether?


#15

You can’t avoid to get domed, not against a decent team. The key is to force the dome where you want it and force them to waist jetpack to get it. Once the dome drops go full ham on the first hunter and exploit mistakes the hunters make.
If support or medic goes out of position, switch targets to them.


#16

And that shouldn’t be case, you should be rewarded for avoiding the hunters. 100% Guaranteed Dome no matter your skill/strategy/planning is not game play, its inevitability .


#17

Well, in the old Evolve that was possible, it was called Flee Till 3 and wasn’t fun for the hunters. Really good monster weren’t caught in many domes and if, they would just mitigate the entire dome. No one likes to run around the map for 20 minutes. :wink:

With Evolve 2.0 more fights happen and this is SOO much better.


#18

I’ve seen some of this Flee Till 3 stuff on the forums, and I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about being properly rewarded for juking hunters, and that just doesn’t happen with planet scanner. In a game there should never be 100% guarantee of anything, that just makes it unfun. Especially when its a core part of what this game is, you talk about hunting a monster, its not a hunt its a chase.

Being able to mitigate an entire dome is silly and I’m not advocating for that. If anything I want there to be more repercussions if you get caught in a dome, which is why in my post i offered suggestions as to what could help with this idea of more open maps. Buffed tracker abilities along with buffs/nerfs to specific monsters would give another way to play the game other than just brute forcing it.

Hunters should not have control of how the game is flowing 24/7 and right now they do.

And as far as I know only wraith could pull off ft3 and mitigate domes. I’m not asking for godly powers, I just want to be able to sneak behind the hunters in a planned fashion if I’m good enough with manipulating my tracks. That goes for all monsters. Because right now two things matter as far the “hunt” goes.

1.) Did you get the max distance while feeding efficiently
2.) Did you double back and take the right angle after planet scanner was done?

There are so many elements in this game you could use to avoid hunters in a tactical manner, setting off birds purposely, using water to cover your tracks, pulling the double take as we mentioned earlier.

But none of that matters because of planet scanner in its current state. And I don’t even mind that! I don’t want planet scanner to change. Just make the maps have less cutoff points making them more rounded/circular. That way when the planet scanner points in the general direction, that’s all you’re going to get on a theoretically circular map. Why? because the cone of red it shows is obtuse. The amount of area an obtuse angle covers with its vertex centered on North South East or West pointing South North West or East is large. As of right now, planetary scanner can be used to effectively shrink the map into sectors giving the monsters all but 2 directions to go in.

Right now the game is controlled solely by the skills of the hunters, when I lose its because the hunters were good on the hunt and in the dome. And I’m okay with having disadvantages in the dome, stage one if you get caught you are going to lose the match if the hunters know what they are doing inside the dome. And the only counter play to that is too avoid the dome stage 1. But as you said before,

Which is why I think opening up maps, which indirectly nerfs the planet scanner, while simultaneously buffing trapper tracker abilities, and making the monster more dangerous in a way that doesn’t have to strictly do with armor and health I think will open up different styles of game play other than

If you have to rely on forcing [quote=“NegroManus, post:15, topic:91027”]
the dome where you want it
[/quote]

and forcing the hunters [quote=“NegroManus, post:15, topic:91027”]
to waist jetpack to get
[/quote]

to where you are, that is all dependent on what the hunters actions are doing

If you’re power as a monster is too hope your suggestive actions influence the hunters to do a certain thing you want them to do the game is controlled by the hunters. Good Hunters win, bad hunters lose. And at this point, hunters who don’t see a juke coming and head straight for the red arrow while sending 2 members out front to intercept the monster are winning because of the way the maps are shaped and the current state of planet scanner.

And if you are wondering, yes I play wraith. I warp -> superova -> traversal angle up -> abduction -> mid-air AA -> decoy as I drop down. I don’t do this horse shit max decoy max supernova asswipe shit. I max abduct and warp and shit is fun as hell. But what I think wraith should and should not be able to do is not a part of this discussion, all monsters would benefit from this greatly because it gives them another option of gameplay other than just praying that hunters aren’t smart enough use TAB map and planet scanner together.

skip if you don’t want to listen to me rant about what I think wraith should be

Encase you are wondering what I think wraith should be, I think she should rely heavily on abduction to isolate targets. I think the core of her in dome battle tactics should be hit and run, but her focus on AOE or multiple target damage is silly and waters her down. If they move damage from supernova into abduction and made supernova a field that slows the hunters( or some type of utility that impairs the hunters like gorgon), while decreasing the hit box for abduction and increasing its cooldown and range would make playing more fun that smashing your head on the keyboard. Fuck decoy invis, fucking decoy damage. honestly I rather have decoy do 1/2 of the damage it is and slow hunters for some percentage. Her focus should be isolating targets like an assassin does. That’s what I think wraith should be, a monster that has to hit the team and disrupt them disengage, and then abduct a high priority target. Reward with damage, punish, with high cooldowns.


I find it hard to believe that allowing for a variety of play styles by monsters that makes them unpredictable in the beginning would make this game worse. And it wouldn’t just be fun for the monsters it would add a more active role for the trapper as I’ve stated, domes don’t feel rewarding because they are fricken easy as heck to get. Imagine making all the right moves, using your knowledge of the map and trusting your intuition to make a dome? How great would the reward of trapping the monster be compared to what is right now, a chore?


#19

Let’s put it in simpler terms: they’re not going to rewrite the game or heavily rework resources that are already done.


#20

As I said before, anyone who thinks they’re ideas/suggestions are going to implemented fully or a all is kidding themselves.