Maggie is OP against Goliath

Hi All/esp. TRS,

I have a balancing issue I’d like to put forwards re: Maggie and Goliath. As of right now I have 221 hours of gameplay and 142 wins with Goliath, playing on PS4.

As the saying goes, half the fun of X is Y. Well maybe not half but a significant portion of fun for Goliath players is hopping around the place (maneuverability) and with Maggie around there ain’t much hopping, to understate it. For me when I see a Maggie pick at loadout my anticipation for the game will turn from, “this game is mostly well balanced and I’m a decent monster player so let’s see what happens” to “they have Maggie and I’m using Goliath; I should consider leaving because if they are half decent this won’t be fun”… I can often win, but it won’t be pretty.

You guys nerfed Maggie’s traps on Behemoth who just rolls through them anyway ?? Lolwut.

  1. No other trapper is so dominant against a monster during engagements as this combo and at least Griffin requires actual skill. Maggie is a spammy character and really takes away a lot of fun for one specific monster

  2. I know you guys have metrics; please can you assess the win loss ratio for this match up? I’ve seen you providing these numbers in the forum and it would be v. helpful.

Just quickly on mechanics: all it takes is a single active harpoon to waste a traversal or a leap smash. Couple that with a small area for movement in the dome and a max of five harp’s in the location and the result is, to put it simply, OP. There’s something about the lack of skill required that really bugs me, contrasted with say a Griffin or a Crow.

I’ll leave it to the pro’s what a nerf would look like, but perhaps one swipe to detach all harpoons? Or a much faster animation?

Finally on this topic, if any guys are going to wb with counter arguments (brace for impact) then please state in your reply whether you play with Goliath. This really needs to be experienced to be believed and I don’t want a load of Maggie players claiming she is completely balanced.

Btw the game is awesome, it’s kind of funny to think nobody quite produced this concept before. Thanks for all the work you put in pre-release and with all the patches/DLC I know that I for one really appteciate it! :slight_smile:

Peace

5 Likes

I see Maggie’s harpoons against Goliath the same as I see mines. If you don’t get rid of them or avoid them then you deserve to get hit with it. Avoiding them is no worse than avoiding mines (they may have a bit more range though), so if you can avoid mines why is it so hard to avoid traps? And yes, I do play Goliath, and yes I do have more difficulties against Maggie than the other trappers, but not so much that I think she’s OP.

3 Likes

Investing 3 points in firebreath greatly reduces Maggie’s harpoon threat. While I would say her traps are more effective in restraining the Goliath than the rest of her fellow trappers, it doesn’t make her OP. Some hunters simply do better against certain monsters (ex. Torvald vs Behemoth)

I dont know about OP, but i do acknowledge that Maggie and even Griffin are pains in the ass for Goliath. They effectively have the potential to cancel out your skills like leap and charge. And cancelling these skills is a huge deal. It bothers me a bit that they dont cancel abilities like that against Behemot or Kraken.

3 Likes

I changed the category to “gameplay” since you’re not talking especifically about Goliath, I hope you don’t have a problem with that and also, I agree with the above comment, firebreath helps making the game a little less annoying againts her :sweat_smile:

Hey look, it’s this thread again

That’s a super good point. The only ones that have abilities that can be negated (more or less) by Maggie are Goliath and Wraith since those are they one two that have abilities that require freedom of movement. I’m not sure how that could be changed though. Cancel out a fissure if Bob has a harpoon in him? Cancel lightning strike? Those don’t make sense so I’m not sure how things can be evened out in that regard.

1 Like

Traps are faster to plant than mines are, but they also have a longer ready time now (compared to before). I agree fully. Those Maggie traps are OP against Goliath. But flamebreath is a huge counter. I recommend 3 points in firebreath to counter it, and plenty of sniffing during a dome. If Maggie is planting a lot in one area, avoid that area and fight them elsewhere. If Maggie is dumping traps all over (wide spread) you’ll have little to worry about.

I main trapper, playing a ton of Maggie and Abe.
I also play a LOT of Goliath (currently my #1 chosen monster), kraken, wraith and rarely behemoth.

I do agree that the reward for harpoons canceling skills is too great if you ask me. IMO leap smash (since it’s AOE) should break all harpoons stuck to Goliath when landing and smashing the floor. But there are ways to counter Maggie harpoons, let me tell you how I deal with them. As Goliath I think it’s important that you never go without flame breath ever… Too good of a tool and DPS for EVERYTHING. So if you skip flame breath don’t do it D: . Anyway to my point… Constantly smell, even if you’re running away. You sometimes will run into Maggie traps you she left behind. If you see an orange box in the direction you want to traversal then start your flame breath and then leap in the direction you want to go. While in the air you should point your flame breath at any trap on the floor. I find this as an effective way to traversal safely and fight in domes effectively.

1 Like

So… How many hours do you have on maggie?

My point beeing that you concluded all on your own that she must be to good and instead of asking if anyone else has it figured out, you ask how to nerf her.

1 Like

I play both Golaith and Maggie a lot. Maggie was my go to main trapper (before crow got released).

I think she ok the way she is, her harpoons aren’t that big of a nuisance as a Golaith.

2 Likes

rock throw is unaffected by it. just dont make it obvious with a hank hovering over an orbital lol.

I believe the traps are OP when they stop your momentum when moving toward the trap. So If I am charging toward a trap, it triggers when I am close enough, but I am still mid charge, the trap will end the charge, even though it is in front of me and I am moving toward it.

Also, I do not like that leap smash does not break the harpoons. it should IMO, as it does a 360 degree damage. As should Wraiths Warp Blast. Even if the harpoon still restricts movement on those skills, the skill should break the harpoon. I mean, Krakens After Shock breaks harpoons…

4 Likes

Griffon actually takes less skill on console, you just autoaim and fire, hits every time

I play as Monster more but occasionally played Maggie when I was getting her mastery. I have to say, from a Maggie standpoint IMO unless you are constantly communicating with the team and throwing down harpoon traps then she is absolutely useless. Without communicating, the team just runs around like chickens with their heads cut off and the harpoons you place are useless unless you run head-first into the monster throwing down harpoons there and you’ll get downed fast.

Now from a Goliath standpoint, it really is not that hard to avoid them. If you play Monster well then you should ALWAYS be smelling (unless you’re hiding in a bush then don’t) and if you’re always smelling you should be seeing where the harpoons are and should be very capable of avoiding those areas or destroying them, especially flame-breath because any Goliath that doesn’t go flame-breath deserves to get poons in the ass. The only poons you can’t stop are Griffin’s.

2 Likes

This is exactly how I feel. The absolute only problem I have with Maggie’s harpoons is that they completely stop forward movement, regardless if you’re moving towards them or not. The ability or traversal should continue as normal until you’ve stretched the harpoon to it’s limit, imho.

3 Likes

But Daisy is a wow factor once your found she’s useless, plus you can kill her taking her out for 2 minutes leaving the team with nothing, other trappers will always have their method

Daisy is far from useless. And if she dies, she starts the dropship timer for everyone else. And if she is dead, you still have 4 hunters to track and locate the monster. There is a reason she is used regularly in tournaments

2 Likes

Without daisy and no general knowledge of were the monster went, that’s 2 minutes the monster had to stage up

Some additional points to consider, as objectively as possible.

  1. Markov Mines have a fairly clear visible detonation range radius. Harpoons have no such visible marker.
  2. 3-point fire breath has been listed as a counter to harpoon traps and mines. However fire breath also disables the ability to use melee attacks for the duration, which means any landed harpoons (or new ones) cannot be removed until the fire breath ends.
2 Likes