Lets talk wildlife buffs! (Poll Closed)

I’ve always wanted to have it so that the wildlife HAD the buff they give. That would still be like the “make them stronger one”, but hear me out.
Elite Crowbill- Does more damage to you than regular. (Damage buff)
Elite Armadon- Takes less damage per hit. (Damage resistance)
Elite Mammoth Bird- Can zap you more frequently. (CDR)
Elite Canyon/Marsh Strider- Runs faster so it’s harder to catch. (Movement speed)
Elite Megamouth- Does more damage to you if it grabs you. (Stealth Pounce Bonus)
Some are a bit harder, but I assume you get the drift.
;3

From the current poll numbers, it looks like tuning buffs down to on level with perks is winning out.

I’d like to reiterate an opinion that if buffs are thusly reduced, it would make sense to make them now stack when buff and perk match - eliminating the scenario where someone’s perk choice is made worthless for a while. It has never felt right to me that you could fully lose your perk’s effects, and I’m not sure some people even understand they ARE losing it.

I don’t think perks and perk-level buffs stacking would be a horrible imbalance. The case everyone talks about is the sloth buff, currently at 35% damage boost. Right now a monster can pick move speed, cdr, feed speed, etc and also have the damage buff at full 35% power if/when they pick it up, alongside their existing perk. When buff strength is reduced to match the 15% damage perk, the only way the monster could get back to 30% would be by choosing the damage perk as well - which means they would do so by giving up whatever other perk they would currently take, forcing them to go all-in on damage instead of enjoying two separate effects.

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what happens to the buff’s whose perks are significantly stronger than half, the feed speed would go from 100-75, and stacking would create 150% buff.
smell range would go the same way.

There are just some buffs that need different levels of tuning than others.

This is true. Stacking does not need to be 1+1 = 2 for every buff, or even any buff. Stacking could instead be perk-level if you don’t have the corresponding perk, or perk + something if you DO have the corresponding perk. For example, consider damage buff as 15% alone, or 25% if you had the damage perk too. feeding speed could be 75% alone or 100-120% with the same perk. The ‘stacking’ level is something else that could be tuned as needed, depending on the imbalance posed by the specific bonus; and it would preserve the idea that no matter what, you don’t fully lose the benefit of the perk you chose.

Codewise I dont think this would be too hard, though I’m not sure how it would show up on the UI (or if it would) that you picked up the buff that matches your perk. If it’s a matter of just changing text, I’d think that would be relatively easy to reflect differing values?

So. I haven’t read everything said in this thread so far. I apologize if any of this has been said before, but here are my thoughts on the subject.

Point One: Wildlife buffs, as they stand, are too powerful. This is undeniable. It is particularly obvious in the case of the damage, damage resistance, and cooldown reduction buffs, though the combined weapon switch and capacity buff is also very powerful for certain Hunters. They need to be toned down and brought into line with the pre-game perks, if they are to remain at all.

Point Two: There is no way for the Hunters to effectively deny a buff to the Monster without giving up on hunting him until the corpse rots fully, which takes a ludicrous amount of time. As Evolve is a game of seconds at the best of times, this is unacceptable. Having buffs available to both teams, instead of just the team that killed the creature, is nonsensical and serves only to handicap the Hunters. If the Hunters kill a buff creature, it should not be available to the Monster except, perhaps, as standard food.

Point Three: A knowledgeable Monster player gets their pick of buffs at the start of the game, since specific buffs only spawn in specific areas. A Monster player with good map knowledge can get a free damage, armor, or cooldown reduction buff of their choice with no chance for counterplay from the Hunters due to their head start. Buffs should not spawn at the beginning of the game. Two to five minutes after drop, depending on whether or not you want buffs available during the early game, is ideal. Make this time constant and visible. All players should know when albino creatures are going to spawn. Having the particularly critical buff creatures - damage, armor, cooldown - spawn later, with a separate timer, would be an acceptable add-on to this.

Point Four: Buff spawns should not be random. As it is, specific buffs spawn in specific areas, but do not have a one hundred percent rate of occurrence. This makes it so that buffs are not a strategic choice (barring a knowledgeable Monster using their head start, as above, in which case it’s just taking a bet that’s rigged in your favor), but an action of opportunity taken whenever they are stumbled across. Buff spawns should be guaranteed to occur within specific areas, so that players can strategize around taking the buffs that are most important to their play. Buff spawns should also be visible on the UI.

Point Five: The most important buffs in any game will always be the damage and damage reduction buffs (crowbill and armadon). Health regeneration and mobility (tyrant and nomad) are close seconds, but are more situational, compared to the universal strength of the first two. Adding anything that outright makes you better in combat to a game which revolves around combat instantly makes that thing central to play (example: in Monday Night Combat, everyone always ran Rate of Fire, Health, and Cooldown Reduction perks to the exclusion of everything else, as they made you do more damage and die less). A similar philosophy applies to the nomad and tyrant buffs, but mobility and sustain can only win you the game indirectly, as opposed to the direct strength increase of damage and tankiness. These buffs must be managed much more carefully than the rest, and need to be balanced very delicately. It may be best to simply remove these buffs all together, but I leave that up to the balancing team to decide.

TL;DR: Buff spawns should be constant, visible to everyone on the map, and take place after both teams are in-game to prevent the Monster getting an unfair advantage by beelining for the damage or armor buff, which is currently an easy win in most games. Hunters should be able to deny buffs by killing buff creatures. Buffs should also be brought down to match perks, or at least be significantly weaker than they are now. Damage and damage reduction buffs are particularly dangerous and need to be carefully balanced, since they provide the most direct increase to your ability to win the game.

EDIT: The Monster’s cooldown reduction buff can be lumped in with the damage and damage reduction perks. It is a direct increase to the Monster’s killing power and needs to be just as carefully balanced as the rest.

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Thanks all. I’m going to see if I can close the poll now. Lots of valuable feedback here. All the responses definitely helped inform our decisions.

We made a general power reduction pass of the Buffs along with rebalancing where necessary. (We also rebalanced the character perks.) They are still more powerful than character perks but not by much.

Additionally, we played with the Elite wildlife stats just a bit to make them feel a little different. For example, an Elite Marsh Strider runs at 9 meters per second now instead of 6.5 and an Armadon Bull has 2000 health instead of 1500. Not huge differences but enough to make them feel a little more unique and to make monsters spend a tiny bit more time killing them.

Long term we are investigating the feasibility of making them “a big deal.” Not that we are sure we want to yet, but as a first step it’s worth figuring out IF that sort of stuff is actually feasible.

Hopefully we’ll have a new build in the morning and testing will begin on the new adjustments. We expect to test this stuff through the remainder of the week and if all goes well, the micropatch could be released near the end of next week.

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Could you tone down striderd damage vs tyrant. Those things are the real killer in shear righr now…

A Pack of strider is no joke and they are aggressive as fuck.

That’s a great news. Thanks a lot for working on these issues, sounds like it should make the game-play even more enjoyable now.

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You mean Mammoth Birds. Yeah, we need to have a community event where everyone wrecks Mammoth Birds for the weekend. Monsters and Hunters unite!!!

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…Please tell me you’re serious right now. C’mon, bossman. We’ll pay for that. ;W;

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If the telemetry guys can track it for us.

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I’m so going to quote you on this. :wink:

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Well I won’t say I’m excited about the wildlife stat changes - I think such numbers as you mention are all but negligible, so they won’t accomplish what you hope for, and that when they get amped up to make a tangible difference, the wildlife will become not-fun for the hunters to have to deal with.

But I am excited for the changes overall, and that you guys are acknowledging an issue here.

Glad to see I had a small impact! :smile:

It does not take Torvald long to kill a sloth or Tyrant: 1 Mortar Barrage + 1 Shotgun Magazine = dead Albino in less than a few seconds.

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And then all the Hunters have to do is walk within three meters of the corpse and they have the perk. Monsters? You have to spend a long time killing it, risking and losing armor and potentially health, and then you have to be right over it and eat it for a few seconds without taking damage. A hunter can tap you with a bullet from across the map and deny the buff. :confused:

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When i play Monster i never need a Long time to kill a Sloth or Tyrant. As Behemoth i throw a Lavabomb (1) and Fissure (2) at them at they are quite low without dealing damage to me, then i roll into them and hit them with a heavy and they are almost dead.

Granted there are Monsters that need a bit longer but i never had a Moment where i thought “man that took quite long to kill this Albino”

Readjusting the values to a more balanced “edge” instead of a game changer would be amazing at first. Idea’s to make them ‘events’ in hunt mode does seem to fit the gamemode as well. There will still be players though that will prefer a clean match without them. This could be a “free” gamemode if you do it well. I’d love the idea to make the Elite creatures stronger, it is what makes them stand out next to their appearance. They should be stronger because it’s what makes ‘hunting them’ more challenging. Making spawns like small events could be a good idea but you need to keep your eyes on the real problem here :smile:

The actual problem with the buffs is that both monster and hunter can hunt these locations. All maps have different creatures with varied Elites. Some maps have near none, some flourish with buffs. You need to fix the problem that either team sprints off towards a buff to turn offensive towards the other team. Making Elite wildlife events creates focus points that are more of an ‘event’ is unfair towards the monster since he needs to risk life and armor to get it. Similar, the monsters speed can cripple the hunters each time if positioned unlucky. But this is meta information.

Buffs can give each team an edge, but they need to balance fair and be able to be countered. A buff cannot be a reason for a win. Sloth buff cannot be a “GG” factor. Making them events, or let normal creatures ‘grow into an elite’ as the match progresses might be a cool idea though. Giving both teams a realistic ‘hunting warning’ when near an elite. Increasing either health or damage (or both) on these animals. Maybe more aggressive as well? But again. This needs to be against the Monster and Hunters.

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I would like to see damage bonus, damage resistance, CDR, 75% capacity increase, and class cooldown reduction tuned down to at least a third of their current power. In my opinion the tyrant buff should be removed entirely. If it has to stay it should only give 2 bars imo.

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I support this. And the reward should be mammoth bird skins for all! :smiley: