Lazarus in tournaments


#1

Arcticstorm321


there is alot of differents sides taken on weather or not lazarus is good enough to stand next to ciara in tournament level gameplay. somethings that have improved is the glitching of dead bodies falling through the ground. Now, that lazarus can be played without any small bugs happening is wonderful but he still isnt as good as ciara, as far as tournaments go.

lazuras may need some more twicking to make him just right for competetive gameplay, and here are my suggestions.

-cloaking: when laz uses his cloak device it doesnt show his jet pack exhaust. when reviving someone while cloaked you stay cloaked,not revealing you when reviving using the laz device.
-laz device: the cooldown increased 50% faster for faster revives on multiple downed hunters.
-body decay: bodies shouldn’t decay, they should be able to be eatten but not decayed. bodies respawn when dropship timer has ended.

These little things would make laz equal to ciara rather than being left in the dust when evolve gets serious and competitive in tournaments.


#2

No, that would put him in god mode tbh. The problem with Laz is that, barring any complete remakes, his kit will always rely on the strength of your opponent more than you and your team. Laz and Wraith are both about capitalizing weaknesses. This means your fate is less in your hands and more in your opponent. I feel any more buffs, even slight, will put Laz over all other medics.


#3

Also, I just played against a laz last night. Threw up a rock wall to eat a tasty Griffin, the corpse went through the map. The glitch strikes again…


#4

well we have to do something, honeslty I think the laz cloak revive needs to be a thing. you get spotted right at revive which is annoying, I think if laz could maintain a solid cloak while reviving, he might be more of a competitive medic like ciara.


#5

I agree he should stay cloaked when reviving with the glove, since you can stay cloaked with a regular revive. That or a toggle on the cloak would be cool. Sometimes the cloak helps but other times, when I revive and get revealed(while another hunter is getting focused), once I pop up, 360 destroy Lazarus mode the fight goes.


#6

The thing that people need to understand is that Lazarus brings something way different as a hunter.
What is the goal of any other hunter team? Get the dome up before stage 2(atleast 3). This is called an early game plan. It’s different with Lazarus.
Lazarus is all about late game: preventing strikes, preventing cherrypicking buffs, preventing death. With other medics, strikes are huge and most monsters feel comfortable getting in a dome stage 2. With Lazarus, a monster shouldn’t be comfortable but they shouldn’t be scared either. Getting the trapper down is easier but there will be no strikes, and a good support and smart Lazarus won’t let himself get strikes from a stage 1 monster (I’ll cut you slak with stage 2). While the monster “can’t” be domed with a Lazarus, it shouldn’t matter. Lazarus is a late game player, like bucket with his sentries or crow with his high damage and stasis abilities. So in conclusion, doming the monster shouldn’t matter as much with Lazarus.
I’d like to point out something people often forget about Lazarus: his sniper leaves no trace. Why is this important? Think about the relay… I’ll give you time… okay I’ll explain. When all 3 of his teammates are dead what does support do? Run and cloak and shoot the monster if he goes for relay. Lazarus is actually best for this because of his NO TRACE sniper. The monster won’t be able to find Laz. So meanwhile the dropship caters in 3 more hunters every 2 minutes that slowly chip away at health with Lazarus 200m away and undetectable. Now don’t get this wrong, this is NOT plan A, or B. It’s more like a C or D. This is mostly because it doesn’t work on all maps and the monster will slowly get the relay during reloads and besides, most good monsters win stage 2 and fair much better doing so against Laz. So here is how to fix that.
Right now as it is, a good Lazarus has good medic capabilities and most of the above changes would be huge. What Lazarus does is force the monster to camp, that’s what Lazarus players and teams need to understand. DO DAMAGE when the monster is camping. Hank’s orbital, Torvald’s mortars, Hyde, Parnell, and Buckets sentries are all really good counters to camping. Three points: 1. If a monster camps he should be punished fairly 2. If a monster doesn’t camp Lazarus should get them up 3. If Lazarus goes down he’s just as useless as any other down medic (except slim’s drone, I know). So the solutions?

  1. Speed up revive rate to counter camping.
  2. Better cloak to counter camping.
  3. Having a dead body not have a timer.
  4. Increase damage output to punish camping.
    Options 1 and 2 are very dangerous to deal with because skill is hard to measure. Both of those could do nothing in theory, or completely change the game. We don’t know; just look at the arguments in this thread. A toggle cloak could easily be taken advantage of by a skilled player, and faster revive means the monster can’t pay heed to any distractions. Another good point is that Kraken and Wraith(and behemoth with tongue grab and rock wall if its used right) fair much better when camping, especially Kraken with his range attacks.
    The dead bodies would be really good as well. If a monsters only option was to eat the body to be in the safe, would be quite over-powered. This would force camping for an infinite time. I see the point however, just kill Laz. Have you ever played against a coordinated Lazarus and Support? Laz stays hidden really well. A good Lazarus will get that body back up if the monster doesn’t camp. This would be a game changer. A stage three monster with full health would have trouble winning, and that’s not the name of the game.
    That’s why I think we should increase his target multiplier and damage, and here is why:
  5. It is easier to notice changes.
  6. A damage buff will only result in increased damage output.
  7. It fits in with Lazarus’s late game strategy; its the odd one out, just like Laz himself.
    Let’s say a body is being camped. Alright fine, deal damage right? YES. Nail some damage on the monster, that’s the goal right? Killing it? YES. Screw Slim being the combat medic, become the sniper assassin Lazarus. All will fear the name!
    Now before I get out of hand, the buff shouldn’t be anything major and I’m sure none of us want to see him become OP. I just wanted to tell you that most of you are looking at this the wrong way.
    I hope you guys see where I’m coming from and consider the buff in damage.

#7

He amps up the skill of the entire game. The hunters need to perform at extremely high standards to work with a Lazarus, but if they make one mistake, or if the monster makes one good play their whole sense of security gets wiped out.


#8

With the introduction of Sunny, Lazarus is easily the best medic in a competitive setting. I don’t think any teams are well-rounded enough, let alone brave enough, to play with him properly, though.


#9

I think Laz can be played in tournament if the team has good structure and discipline. Laz combined with Assaults like Torvald and Supports like Cabot and or Sunny/Hank can punish monsters very hard for body camping, often times forcing them to move out of the way. Laz also prevents early strikes for when monsters try their hardest to get a down on your trapper or support early on. They might spend too much time in the dome trying to find and kill Laz while also taking severe damage from the other 3, or they will lose armor and some health downing one hunter but Laz will just prevent a strike and the game goes on unharmed.

The only buffs I can think for Laz would be to improve the recharge speed on his heal burst, and make it do a little more healing already.

He is viable, and quite enjoyable to play with if you know and your team know what you are doing. I don’t think he gets enough love because of PUB Laz players not doing their job right.


#10

You do realize that the reason Caira is played in so many tournaments because most tournament players can’t win without her you know why? It’s because Caira has too much of a heal rate when she can heal herself and multiple hunters at a time and she requires the least amount of skill to use. Seriously I went against a Kraken player that was hammering my team left and right and what did I have to do? Just sit in a single spot, click a single button, and aim the whole time and I was out-healing a stage 2 (supposed to be a fair fight) Kraken’s damage that didn’t miss a single melee or ability. Stage 2 is supposed to be a fair fight and it’s sad how many people think she’s not OP I mean come on you serious? Caira has and I guess will always be OP because I guess the devs don’t think she is either which shocks me most. Caira takes the least amount of skill to use, has the least risk factor even if she misses a shot or two, and heals the most HP out of all the medics. The other medics take a team with skill, coordination, and communication to take down a skilled monster while Caira is ridiculous in power that even a total team of pubs can be nuisance to deal with. I’m a main monster player, but I have no bias whatsoever toward either side that so many players seem to possess which is alien to me. This game is supposed to be where it takes skill to win. In order to achieve that skill needed to win as a hunter, you need these 3 main elements that come to play; communication, coordination, and situational awareness. Caira makes it so you don’t need that to win really and it’s pathetic how people defend her healing output. I want balance to where it takes practice and dedication to get good at the game, not just go with a certain character and do above average with minimal effort. I’ve killed many Caira’s and have won most of them, but stage 2 isn’t a fair fight when you verse a skilled team and even if you hit every single ability and land every melee attack but yet it is so difficult to down a single hunter because of her healing factor. Whenever there’s a Caira+Hank combo, I slaughter the Hank because if he’s skilled and shields Caira, then yuo’re gonna be wasting your time.


#11

I recently played in a tournament and had laz as the medic, the video is quite intense but one false move and we would have been screwed. also i appoligies before hand for my teammates trash talking, they were just tired of everyone saying that laz could not be played in tournaments of high level and proving everyone wrong. prodigy was still a really good monster and we were only able to get one victory on him out of 2 games. enjoy.

tournament match 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwOsdAGGCSM

tournament match 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR9qsXIFhYY


#12

Cheers for posting those two matches. I think you should’ve started your post with them because they provide a great discussion point. Your team did great work in the first match, turning the game into a pub hunt. Prodigy would down someone, you guy would spread out and punish, and he could never find Lazarus. When he started focussing your trapper in the second match though, the team didn’t seem quite as prepared. At one point in one of the domes he ran behind a rock, then waited to ambush the trapper who was moving towards him. It really seems that Lazarus teams must capitalise on post evolve domes when monsters are more likely to run then attack anybody. Allowing him to stage 3 with only a few bars of health gone made it very difficult for Lazarus especially with the rate he was downing hunters outside the relay.


#13

Lazarus is 100% an end game medic.
Stage 3, the other medics really can’t cope with the damage output from the monster whereas laz can pick up the body as long as any other hunter prevents feeding time.

Tournament wise, never. The game breaking bug of hunter clipping immediately voids this medic, unfortunately.


#14

stop trying to make laz happen

its not going to


#15

I feel that Laz is really bad against good monsters. It is easy for monsters to bait in Laz for the revive or just smell him out and chase him. Even if someone revives the first person that dies, having a Laz with a strike is much more detrimental that any other medic with a strike. Cloak is nice to stop the smell from finding him, but it doesn’t last forever. At stage 1 I think Laz is good since there is little kill pressure. Later on though it’s just just not worth it compared to what the other medics bring to the table.

Laz is the worst at healing, so if any takes any damage from Wildlife, that is most likely going to stick into the next fight. If people try to split up to cut off the monster, it’s easy for the monster to just fight a 2 vs 1, knowing that there won’t be any long range healing to stop them from dying. If Laz is following the monster then it’s even easier for the monster to win. Yes, the hunter wont get a strike, but it forces the team to stay back for a bit and wait for Laz to revive, giving time for the monster to run and evolve.

TL;DR - Caira, Slim and Val > Laz. At least in competitive


#16

i thinkthey should decaay like how p would tht be if the hunters killed mammoth birds and a sloth montser go theres 5 mins lter he got 13 meats for doing nothing when they decay there gone


#17

i was just talking about the hunters @hohoho479 , the decay time need to be alittle long, when someone dies, that leaves only two people left to deal damage, so increasing the decay time for hunters would be great.


#18

@breezy , yeah in the second match the trapper continued to push even after I told him that the monster was trying to focus him. we even started arguing with each other because he would take my advice and run rather than fight. People dont understand that half of the trappers job is doming the monster, the other half is keeping…that…dome…up.


#19

Apparently he can revive eaten hunters though. I played a game last night, trapper rushed me, I downed him and gobbled him up before the team could get los on me. Run away, 4 seconds later “trapper has been revived”. Ffs. I realize this was a glitch, but still.


#20

Everyone is talking about tournament and competetive game. Where you can you sing in for a thing like that?