Lazarus changes

So, I’ve played a bunch of games as and against Lazarus since the recent patch, in both customs and MM, after which I’ve decided that he’s easily the worst Medic now. A good Medic needs to have strong self sustain and strong sustain other, and with Laz?

His survivability is good, exactly as it should be, with one exception which I’ll go into soon.

His “sustain other” is his revive game. And his revive game right now sucks. ._. Unless Cabot or Bucket are on the team you can easily- easily- just wait out the timer for a strike. It’s not even a joke, corpses rot SO fast right now that it’s honestly pathetic. Yes, they buffed incap health. Guess what? Sit on the body for two extra seconds and punch the downed hunter = neutralized the extra incap health. 30 seconds is too short. 45 was fine. If you wanted it nerfed it should’ve been down to forty at the very lowest.

As for his self sustain- HB is good, where it should be. His cloak is also where it should be, but it’s totally neutered by Meteor Goliath. Yes, we’ve all just come to live with the fact that certain monsters counter certain hunters and vice versa, but not to THIS extent. Meteor Goliath literally- literally, no exaggeration, no joke, a LOT of games of experience saying this- removes Laz’s cloak if you know what you’re doing. The blue residual burn is really, really easy to see and you can apply it constantly to just neuter that cloak like a cat at the animal hospital and it kills Lazarus. It should be a counter to him, yes, but NOT to this extent. Parnell vs Wraith/Kraken, you can still get good damage off; Goliath vs Jack, you can still burst through the Repulsor very quickly and resume business as usual, Griffin vs Goliath, you can still escape. It’s not gg by any means, just makes it harder, but Laz vs Meteor Goliath? Lolnope. Regular Goliath? His FB is now pretty short, so it’s revealing Laz for less time, which makes it manageable. But not Meaty.

tl;dr- Buff corpse timer considerably and make his cloak somewhat immune to the visual effects of Meteor Goliath at least.

I say all of this as a seasoned monster and a hunter, I’ve a lot of experience fighting as and against Laz and I know how to play, so kindly refrain from accusing me of bias or prescribing the treatment of gitting gud. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

11 Likes

Tbh, I thought they said they were making the time 35s, and I thought that was ok. 30 is really short. I agree with buffing it to 40s. Right now I can easily wait the timer out. Also, very much agree with the MG flames on Laz.

I dare say this may be the first time I’ve fully agreed with you on a balance issue @MidnightRoses O_o

The world is coming to an end. Kappa.

It’s the dawn of a new day. A new world… It’s bright and sunny… I don’t like that =I

Oh god dammit I forgot the poll in the OP and it’s been seven minutes so nyeh:

  • Yes! :D<g
  • No! D:
  • I dunno lol.

0 voters

I DETEST not having polls in the OP, curse my absent mindedness on this day.

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Instructions of poll unclear, got head stuck in chain-linked fence. Halp!

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2 Likes

I can’t help it. :dragon:

Bruh, this head gets stuck in a lot of things if I’m not careful.

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2 Likes

Heal burst should neutralize DOT burn damage and visual flames. just sayin
ps 40 sec on laz decay is fine, you will spend that same amount of time just trying to fight through the healing of val or ciara for example. ciara and val both have way longer than 30 seconds to sustain the team then they have the potential of instant reviving down hunters in a matter of moments. Laz needs this decay time increased back to 40sec. this is his version of sustain, similar to the other medics.

2 Likes

Exactlyyyyyyy.

Yes body camping makes you take more damage but have you ever fucking fought a good Caira/Slim + Hank/Sunny? It takes like five times longer to down ONE person there than it does for a body to rot. It’s ridiculous to nerf the decay time.

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I mean Laz took awhile for people to finally play him properly and then people complained for nerfs. Jesus.

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Seriously?
The reasoning behind the whole corpse rot time adjustment was the fact that lazarus men would just hang back, stay cloaked, and basically sip on tea or coffee or whatever while goliath players had to deal with harpoons, turrets, mines, and being kited to oblivion. Even if the monster player finally downed a hunter and decided to camp body, there was no payoff for laz to actually engage in the fight, as all he would have to do is wait until the monster finally got tired of having cabotvald shove mortars down his throat and casually float down for a rez.

45 seconds was a looooooong time. Now, laz players don’t have time to finish their coffee, and they have to be much more proactive in their play style. Isn’t that the point though? Actually being proactive in a combat scenario using your full kit vs actually being rewarded for hanging back neutrally for almost a full minute?

And on a side note, you may be able to tell from my profile pic, but yes, Meteor Goliath prefers his lazarus men medium well. I almost think meaty was created specifically to counter laz comps, and I absolutely love it. Goliath players now actually have a chance against laz in a game that heavily favors the hunter side in the first place.

2 Likes

I’m against the body timer change, 30 seconds is good. Neither side has to under or over commit, the window for revive is tighter and benefits the monster more fairly, and now laz actually has to play for stakes.

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I’ve been saying it since the patch notes were first made public, the decay timer change was NOT a fair trade-off and essentially pushed Laz very close to the realm of useless, and all because monster players refused to learn the match-up. It was change for the sake of change which is not the right way to go about balancing anything.

2 Likes

It depends on the matchup and the terrain. Sometimes body camping is the ONLY viable strategy, considering I’ve seen Laz rez without even having to stop moving. I have to pop Supernova just to make sure he doesn’t do it in between melee swings. The decay timer wouldn’t be nearly as big of an issue if there was anything reliable that could be done once we was at the body.

From what I’ve seen from other people is that Laz is in the same position wraith is, people’s views of him seem to be very black and white. He’s always either OP or UP, because his mechanics are game changing.
He’s going to be one of the hardest characters to balance, similar to how Val is. We can’t really improve Val any way more than the current state that she is, because she has a really great kit and just one of them being buffed the wrong way could make the other kits overpowered, but if we take some things down or leave her where she is, she’ll still never be as viable.

With Laz you have to realize that the recent change is to encourage tactics to sacrifice strikes for health damage, get a strike in maybe and do health damage to the monster until it decides to flee. Or have the monster not commit and win still benefit if the monster lost a little health but not get any strikes.

From my personal experience with Laz both playing as him and against him, Laz still wins the majority of matches both in MM and premades with some of the forum dwellers and a few people who play competitive in the end silver-gold part of Ranked Hunt.

Playing against him, is still very iffy because his Cloak is very spammy now. But at least his more consistent Heal burst means that downing more than one hunter is now an option, the thing that bothers me about Laz as a monster is not the rot time. I think the rot time is fine where it is right now for both sides.
The thing that I hate most about fighting Laz is how speedy his revives are and how easily he can get a revive him. Despite me attacking the body.

As for his balance status, from my personal experience he isn’t as oppressive as before where he forces everyone in the game to play a certain way which is good. As for his gameplay mechanics and how they work, I believe we are getting there. We’re in that close sweet spot where if we know what we want Laz to be we can find a better balance to how his kit works and add in more options to counter them. Just like we can with the other medics right now.

That is if they know what they’re doing, I think some monster are hard counters to some hunters and it should be that way. Just like Abduct is a hard counter to Slim and Lennox or Lava Bombs to any general deploy based hunter.

I’m calling biased, but then again I am biased myself. So double biased. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I’m not saying you should gedgud, just saying that you need to look at the bigger picture on why the changes were made and where we’re striding with them.

The rezz time is my main gripe with Laz as well, like I said above I swear I’ve seen him do it without having to stop moving. I think it either needs to be given an increased cast time or reworked into something less black-and-white. Maybe he can channel it into the body and depending on how long he manages to do it they get up (at the end) with more health? Thay way if he sneaks in and gets it off between melee swings (again, I’ve had it happen) they get back up but are still in dire straits.

Also, here’s the big secret, we’re all biased, that’s part of being human :stuck_out_tongue: