Kraken Banshee Mines OP? (Video Included)


#1

The lightning strike buff was warranted, given the ease at which a hunter can dodge the ability. However, the banshee bombs have been buffed to the point where they are absolutely devastating. The velocity in which a banshee bomb travels combined with the instant detonation, furthered by the insane damage and considerable stunlock caused upon pop makes for a very deadly asset to the kraken. Combined with the undodgeable aftershock and vortex, that makes for essentially 3 undodgeable, high damaging abilities, with the exception of lightning strike.

You might say, but banshee mines can be shot, git gud bro. And I would reply that in an ideal OP rant i would agree, but these banshee bombs have very little room for counterplay. They hit for 25-30% of your health, and given their speed, they are essentially undodgeable and often times virtually impossible to see as they insta-detonate. I feel like the ability is waaaaaaaay too rewarding given the ease of use of the ability. You just aim and spam, no leading required. You can easily achieve 60% damage on a hunter in 2 seconds with the current banshee bombs. What do you, the community, think? Balanced? Underpowered? Overpowered? Please state your opinion and give evidence/an Arguement as to why you think that way.

EVIDENCE TO THE NONBELIEVERS

http://xboxclips.com/Supreme%20Hunter0/39f93603-ed74-44ee-ba3c-aad594d43f02/embed

As you can see, there is almost little to no reaction time in which you can pop these projectiles. They whizz by ungodly fast and reward ungodly damage. Couple that with Vortex/Heavy melee (undodgeable point blank) and aftershock (undodgeable) the damage is insane and the hunters have no way to counter this, no matter how much jetpack you conserve. One must consider the damage when a kraken flings these out like a machine gun in combat. @TrickshotMcgee @niaccurshi @gef_1_man_army @MacMan @MajorLeeHyper @TheMountainThatRoars @Buckets_Sentry_Gun @TrickyMrGreen @LadieAuPair


#2

I think no one plays Kraken (I didnn’t meet him more than a month) so it’s ok


#3

The frequency in which you meet a character does not have anything to do with the state of balance of a character. Based on personal experience, I run into kraken quite a lot (40% of my games i would say) and most krakens know how to exploit the banshee mines.


#4

It’s fun. It is like clay pigeon shooting.


#5

I think the change to their invincibility state and arm time was something that was much talked about when it first happened but due to other changes the publicity has died down but I for one hate how little counter play there is to banshee mines when used like cannon balls.

Their invincibility and arm time both being the same is something I absolutely detest when I actually try to counter it properly but still get hit anyways as it is impossible to destroy once it is already on top of you. An insta pop I might say.


#6

Yepp, unless they changed it the latest patch/the one before that, then I can confirm it. Very annoying and it’s been like this since they increased it to counter Markov, which was ages ago.


#7

It’d be great if they can change the code at some point to allow bullets to destroy the mines in a shorter time than non bullet weapons.


#8

I can juke/dodge somewhat most of the monste for good 5-8secs, even if the monster is good. When it comes to Kraken, Im usually dead in 2-3 sec. Lighting with 3 banshee = im done.

I dont understand why already most used monster in high level got two buffs, but whatever, I dont really care anymore. I just do occasional quick-play


#9

Yeah, I’ve got to say that I feel the buffs that Kraken got in the latest patch were completely unwarranted. The fact that he had a higher skill floor was absolutely fine.


#10

Honestly, I think a good counter to this atm is Laz Bucket Maggie Markov. Laz can cloak which renders banshees useless, bucket’s turrets shoot them, Markov’s lightening gun fries them, and daisy soaks up a few extra mines. Plus with the current bug of the kraken not being able to see which hunter is which most of the time, it makes it even harder to spot where laz is.

I do agree though that the banshee’s are a bit op, and they should either reduce their damage slightly or their stun lock time.

Since they’ve been buffed I think teams need to put more priority and focus onto shooting them. Before this was not so important as they could be dodged, but now it is the only real counter play to them and people need time to adjust to this.


#11

One jetpack dodge is all you need on flat ground. Or at higher elevations jumping off turning around and shooting the mine works too.


#12

I never have issues with them. Not trying to say anyone is wrong, though. They are faster than before and require attention, but they’re kind of like a Spider Trap in that way. Pay attention or eat some damage. It’s how they should be. No Monster abilities should be things Hunters can simply ignore or swat away. Sure, if used this way, they can be hard to dodge or kill, especially when thrown behind you, but they should not be changed too much, either. I feel a tiny arm time or speed change would be OK, but not much more than that.

As a Hunter, I don’t feel they should be changed whatsoever. Reasons listed above.

I don’t play Kraken often, and when I do, I lose most of my matches (like playing for four hours in quickplay and I might win three). I am not a skilled player. Nor am I a clutch player, and as such, the insta-kill combos seem kinda bitchy to me, so I don’t use them. Mines are a trap when I play, or simple area denial. Stuns are a side-effect, and are much appreciated.


#13

Why tag people a week later? I still don’t think they need a nerf. I wouldn’t lose any sleep if they were simply left alone. I still have no issue when fighting him, either.

Yes, Mines can be used in a bitchy way. Yes, they can be ridiculously hard to counter. Yes, they’re too fast for the vast majority of players to pop if thrown well (myself included). This is all correct. The thing is, the mines are not things that can be continually spammed for a whole engagement and a clutch kill. They can only help with burst damage when used this way, and completely denied with shields. Using the Mines in tandem with anything else costs him abilities, health/armor, favorable position, and likely a traversal or two, while a Hunter can simply heal when Kraken is recouping and then work together with their team and draw blood of their own.

Something else about Mines: You have to spend points to exploit them like this. If his Mines are strong, the rest of his kit isn’t.

I won’t ever say “git gud” because it’s disrespectful and flat-out rude to say. I also don’t think I play much better than average. You can likely play better than I can. I will say, however, that there are counters and ways to punish this kind of play.

My opinion has not changed. I say either make a small tweak to their arm time (make it a tiny bit longer), or simply leave them be. People have been countering Kraken and will continue to do so. You coming back with video is proof that you’ve been playing with at least some success.

Also, one thing I noticed was that you moved out of LoS of your Shield Drone, so you took a whole Mine that would have normally been blocked. If it was higher, you would have only taken half of that damage.


#14

I had tagged because I had recently discovered how to add gifs. Therefore I decided that if I warrant my claims with video proof, it would give my arguement some more validity.

I would also like to add that out of most kraken games i see on stream and personally, the ratio of damage is anywhere from 6:1:1:1 with the banshee mines delivering the most damage by far. They can absolutely be a main damage dealer during a fight, often times bailing the monster out if they cant hit 2/4 abilities (lightning&aftershock) since the banshee mines are omnipresent and instant.


#15

The argument already had validity without the gif. The mines are strong. Everyone agrees on that. I think the only reason that they seem to be so much stronger than the other abilities is the way they’re exploited and how slow the others seem, in comparison to what is effectively a cannonball. LS and AS do more individual damage, but can’t be used three times in succession.

Just did a bit of experimenting myself as Kraken with bots and tried to copy the method (rather poorly, I might add). It’s not an easy thing to do, and I found that when I did land them, they accounted for a fair bit of damage. They were bots, mind you, so this may not be accurate for team play, but the mines hit at least as often as Vortex/LS, and though they did less damage than that combo, they were faster and had lower cooldown. So, after seeing both sides of that coin, I will concede that they could use an adjustment. A low-skill player like myself only took 3 matches to get it down well enough to use, so more people getting it and exploiting might make lots of matches go sour for tons of people. I don’t like using it, I think they’re better used for extending knockback after Vortex to set up LS, but I see why it frustrates people.

And now I feel like a complete jackass. Still, I learned something and now I’m more open to the subject. In any case, I did note that I spent three points on them and my LS, and Vortex were noticeably less effective overall. It really depends on your build and playstyle being geared towards using this method for it to be a viable tactic.


#16

I completely welcome your input. This post is about discussion anyway, no? You are not being a jackass by explaining your standpoint logically. In fact, I admire that you played around with the kraken and shared your experience with me. The more data we can accumulate will help the community reach a consensus on what is felt about the current state of the banshee mines. Thank you for your time.


#17

Behold a fundamental issue with the concept of trying to “balance” a VERY capable character who requires a high skill ceiling to make him look good in overall telemetry.


#18

Subjectively, Kraken has probably always been the best monster in the game. But now more than ever, Kraken has objectively become the best monster (I’m talking leagues ahead) than the other monsters in terms of combat potential. It’s no wonder most monsters I run into on ranked have hopped onto the kraken bandwagon.

I would say that the old kraken required a high skill ceiling, as you actually had to land consecutive abilities to achieve a down (LS and AS). Spamming banshees I feel is far from a high skill ceiling, no? As seen in the video provided in the base post I was brought to about 50% health in about one second flat. An aftershock hits you for about 40% of your health, a heavy melee vortex for 30% i assume? Point being, the damage is insane. Very little/no counter play.


#19

It’s never ok for that reason. Balancing should never be done with that kind of logic.


#20

why didn’t anyone bother to shoot the mines?

Sunny is actually pretty great at destroying the banshee bombs. Big radius is awesome…