It's happening again (Live-Action TLA announced)


#21

Because of the creators will be running the gig. What more do you need?

It was as mature as both age restriction and Nickelodeon allowed it to be. They said several times that they couldn’t include things because they weren’t allowed to. I’m not saying it needs to be 18+, but 15+ would do such dark, serious and complex story justice.


#22

Why are you so sure it won’t? What stake do you have in this that you want it to fail so bad?


#23

And, to repeat above, what does it actually matter if it’s not worthwhile to you if it is worthwhile to a whole new audience?


#24

I mean, George Lucas was behind the SW prequels, but those weren’t very good. They did some good in keeping the franchise relevant, but I shouldn’t have to go beyond the fact that “I hate sand” is an actual line in one of the films.

I don’t want it to fail at all. I would be much happier if this didn’t suck. The reality is that there’s pretty much nothing to expand upon with re-imagining TLA. The first iteration served its purpose very well. There’s no real need for this reboot. And again, I will take all this back if it proves me wrong; but I’m not going to believe it has any capacity to bring something new to the table until I have evidence to the contrary.

It doesn’t. I’m speaking objectively. If it’s bad by objective standards or if it just repeats what has already been said and done, then that is a fact. If I personally take issue with some detail, that’s my preference. People are allowed to like bad things. That doesn’t excuse those things being bad or unnecessary. Objectively, the live-action Beauty and the Beast reboot is a bad film because it has poorly-developed characters and doesn’t take the concept in a new direction. Subjectively, I didn’t like the musical performances very much.


#25

I have news for you. There already has been one, and Rowling loved it.


#26

And I am glad that I’ve been unaware of it until now.


#27

And that’s probably one of the reasons you’re not a screen writer. There is nothing to add that YOU can think of.

But anyway. I don’t want to turn this into an argument. I’m not even a fan of the series. Never cared for it but I see it’s potential so the remake interests me some what


#28

Can you think of anything? Shit, has anyone brought up something new it can contribute? This argument assumes I’m completely inept when I’ve given no indication of that and my entire point is that TLA has already gone in-depth into its world, subject matter, and characters. Hell, I’ve been saying this entire time that if I’m shown that there is potential to add to this concept with a new version of the series, then I will take back my negative comments. With the available information, nobody can prove me wrong or right save for the actual writers of this show. Until there’s a trailer, we have one promotional image to go on; when we have something substantial, then it will be time to start seriously asking whether this series has any potential rather than whether it hypothetically could.


#29

It’s terrible. Just a pointless entry that feels like bad fanfic. And that’s coming from a guy with a darkmark and mudblood tattoo.


#30

And that really only reinforces my point. Content of existing stuff in a different style than the original material is generally disliked.

Even if certain things about the story are good, the presentation and medium it is presented on can entirely change the way it is viewed or the actual quality of the work itself.


#31

I didn’t want it, still don’t really want it.
I know the original creators are attached but the show was like Ghostbusters to me. I don’t know if these guys can take the same story and make it work just as well as it did before.
We’ll see, but everyone knows the opinion most fans have about live action anything with TLA.


#32

Could always be based on one of the other Avatars.


#33

Yeah, but we know it’s not. If it were, then I’d be down.


#34

Art isn’t objective. It can have a subjective consensus, but there is no such thing as something as a whole being objectively bad when it comes to tv/film/theatre


#35

What a thoroughly depressing stance, albeit indicative of fandom these days. Completely negative until persuaded beyond doubt, rather than open minded until enough information to respectfully decide it’s not something you’ll enjoy.


#36

There are standards by which fiction is judged. Film criticism almost always boils down to whether the plot makes sense, whether the characters are deep and thoroughly developed, and so forth. Whether or not TLJ has an illogical plot with characters that don’t act rationally is not in question. Whether or not the live-action Beauty and the Beast fails to deviate in terms of plot from its precursor is not an opinion. Whether or not the new TLA will have a lot of nuance has yet to be seen for certain.

Wait, so I can’t go into this expecting a certain thing? I’ve stated many times that I will be positive about this if I’m given indication that there’s any reason to be positive. We have no indication one way or the other, so based on what we know about the original, I’m making a presumption that I’m willing to change. If they said “we’re making a spinoff about another past/future Avatar” then I’d be more quick to get on board.


#37

Yes, subjective standards, fiction is an art.

Hmm, well some film criticism does, and there is a growing argument that it is toxic to the industry. Most serious film critics don’t dwell on plot so much as they do on how the film and the story feels, the messages being conveyed, the subjective ease in which they found themselves watching the film (and whether a lack of ease was part of the subjective good or bad of the film)

Here’s a good video on how people have taken to criticising “plot” as a way of avoiding actually doing a proper job of film criticism.

It’s entirely in question, because what you’re stating is entirely a subjective opinion, and one not shared by professional film critics. But I’m not having a fight about TLJ here (which was possibly the best of all Star Wars films as far as I’m concerned), feel free to comment on it further but out of respect for the thread I don’t have any more to add about that film.

But basically, the things that you say aren’t opinions… are actually 100% opinions.

Of course you can, but it just seems to be the default status to say “I don’t know anything about this, so I’m going to presume the worst”, and I find that, as I said, depressing; Depressing because it’s not unique to you but to a whole scene of people that are ready to project and actively badmouth new creations even though they also then say in the same breath that “Of course if it’s actually good, I’ll change my mind”. I don’t get the logic, or the agenda. I don’t know if it’s a hipster “I knew it before it was cool” kind of evolution or something else, but it doesn’t actually…improve anything, so the only reason to not only hold that opinion but to project it forcefully is to somehow try to bring negativity to the conversation about it, for whatever reason that is.


#38

That’s absurd. If the plot doesn’t make logical sense, then it runs a huge risk of interfering with the film’s ideology, immersion, and flow. If the plot makes no sense, then it cannot create expectations because the viewer cannot know what to expect; and that’s bad because film as an art form relies on creating, disrupting, and satisfying expectations from the viewer. Suspense is non-existent if there are no rules which constrain the sense that characters have limited options.

It’s not in question at all. Rational human beings do not act as they do in TLJ. And I’ve been using that movie as an example because it’s a good case of taking an existing property and making something that is bad because it contradicts existing canon, it contradicts itself, it contradicts the identity of the franchise it’s a part of, its characters are weak, and it doesn’t really have anything intelligent to say. It can be enjoyed or loathed by anyone. I hate it, most people hate it, and the objective standards critics agree on run against it, but clearly you don’t agree with that perspective and have judged it on different criteria.

To say that there are no objective standards, though, is just wrong. Those standards originate from people within the industry, from the critical responses to films, and to what our culture has largely agreed upon. Inklings of these standards can be seen bleeding through historical literature. Even the Epic of Gilgamesh shows an understanding of the importance of character arcs: Gilgamesh needs to change for the better in order to be happy. Characters need flaws–in the Odyssey, Odysseus faces hardship as a result of his own hubris, as do many Greek literary figures. And today, as a rule, those works which have dynamic characters, logical plot progression, and non-superficial ideologies are more warmly-received.

But it’s not the default. We know, in general, what this is, and that’s a red flag to me. It’s a bad sign because it’s a sign that the franchise is just staying in one place when it has so much more potential. If the announcement had been “we’re making a new series about the 7th Avatar after Korra who has to deal with the advent of space travel and bending/spiritual relations on alien worlds,” that would be much more exciting. I’d be like, “hey, this is going in a direction I wouldn’t have even expected it to, I wanna see where this goes.” It’s a weird idea, and possibly even a stupid one, but it’s the first thing that popped into my head, so bite me.

My point is this: we got TLA once. It was good the first time, and it didn’t really leave a lot of room for a reboot. That there’s this effort to re-invent the wheel is troubling, but if the wheel now comes with a tire, I will be more at ease. Until then, I will be cautiously pessimistic, if only because there’s gonna be a shitstorm on some level no matter what happens and I don’t really want to be around for that.


#39

All I have to say on this is: all I know is that I don’t like eating raspberries, but I love raspberry ripple ice-cream. Also that you should watch that video I posted. Though you won’t like what it says!


#40

Now that I’m home, I finally got a chance, and honestly…it’s kinda pretentious. It assumes that plot criticism never goes beyond “hurr durr, that didn’t make sense to me” when, in reality, plot holes can have HUGE ramifications for the film. Example of a non-problematic plot hole: Indie could have sat out the events of Raiders of the Lost Ark. However, it was in character for him to do it anyway. He wanted to for a handful of reasons. He also didn’t really know the Nazis would get dunked on when they stole the Ark. Why would he sit it out? With hindsight, he could have; but then who would recover the Ark? What would he do in the meantime? What would stop him from going, considering his relationship with Belloq and his devotion to his job? In the context of RotLA, this plot hole doesn’t really hurt the film. I’m not even really sure it’s a plot hole.

Plot holes are more detrimental in films like TLJ. There, the plot essentially revolves around Holdo choosing, for reasons never given, not to tell her crew that she at least has a plan that exists. Poe and co. then hold a mutiny, and they are justified in doing so with the information they have; however, the film expects us to feel like they were in the wrong because they didn’t trust Holdo, who actually DID have a plan that would have worked without interference. The resulting effect is just a sense of “what the fuck is the movie getting at?” The actual events of the film suggest that Holdo is in the wrong, but it tries to make us feel like Poe is. It’s as if it can’t decide what it wants to get across. And if it were the only plot hole, and especially the only real flaw in the film, then TLJ could only be mediocre at worst.

That is when good plot holes go bad. When they have no real effect, anyone who cites them as a legitimate criticism probably is being a pretentious twat who doesn’t want to admit they just didn’t like a thing. When they interfere with the ideology, characterization, and progression of a narrative, then they can really bring a story down. Does that mean a work with huge flaws of that nature cannot be enjoyed? No, if only for a minority group. I listen to Lordi, but I know they kind of suck because they only really do one thing over and over and also “Wake the Snake” is an actual song written by human beings. They have merits, but they’re superficial for the most part.